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Old 07-28-2011, 08:43 AM   #1
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Default Permaculture Practices Becoming Popular

This is permaculture Illinois style!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/ga...=1&ref=science
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:34 PM   #2
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A nice three page primer that may get you interested in zoning used in Permaculture....And while most of us will only have a few zones due to space some good points.

Be sure to read all 3 pages as each explains a different segment.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:42 AM   #3
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Permaculture: Blueprint for Sustainable Gardening

Several years ago I wrote a few articles on the concept of permaculture. This is one and I hope I will be permitted to link to it.

Permaculture as the article cited above at the beginning of this thread states, requires a shift in the traditional ways we think about plants--a shift from seeing our forests, for example as organic wholes rather than just as a collection of trees.

Thinking in terms of systems does require a leap of faith, a shift in thinking about wholes as organic living things rather than a collection of parts. It is a way of understand complexity instead of reducing our understanding to the simplest terms.

To me, it is instructive that an Australian, Bill Mollison, had to give us this way of thinking in terms of ecological principles. There is still a lot of resistance in the US to the concept.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:38 PM   #4
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Although permaculture has some good ideas, it really doesn't contain anything new. It has simply borrowed ideas from organic gardening, subsistence living, small scale farming, etc., and thrown in some well deserved criticism of corporate agriculture.

More to the point, permaculture has a fatal ecological flaw. It does not support natural ecosystems. It only wants to 'mimic' them. It mimics them in any way that suits the human needs of the permaculturalist. Invasive species are used (and encouraged) without concern for the potential ecological damage. The damage done by invasive species is denied, and the concept of invasive species is twisted into a self-serving 'nativist conspiricy'.

One example form Hazelnut's link (emphasis mine):
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Permaculture is a design theory. Its focus is learning the right combinations of plants (and animals) that will be efficient, and sustainable, and then putting those in place. "It is our job to put the right things in place, and then let her rip." [4(I:10)]. Permaculturalists are not particularly concerned about 'native plants'. In fact, Mollison has said, all plants are native to the earth. A greater interest, rather than whether a plant is "native", is whether the plant/or animal, works within the design. [12] This type of "ecological" thinking is fundamental to the permaculture movement.
Permaculture also readily dismisses science when it does not suit their purpose. They proselytize actions that have no basis in fact. Jack's link in post #1 makes that quite clear.

Permaculture is a corruption of biological diversity and natural ecosystems to meet the needs of a cult-like philosophy of gardening. Permaculture is in direct opposition to the goals and mission statement of Wildlife Gardeners. We will not support the use of Wildlife Gardener's resources (including these forums) to promote the philosophy of permaculture.

Wildlife Gardener's Mission Statement:
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Wildlife Gardeners promotes environmentally sound practices to preserve biodiversity. We do so by encouraging discussions of the preservation, restoration and establishment of native flora and fauna AND sustainable gardening practices. The Best science will prevail. We are an environmental tutelage and advocacy organization dedicated to fostering a love of ecosystems and education in the areas of environmental science and natural history.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #5
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Let's be careful-
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Originally Posted by Fearless Weeder View Post
While many non-technical permaculture contexts regarding sustainable home landscapes have a place at Wildlife Gardeners, we must always bear in mind they are only untested ideas and opinions. How we apply them can be sustainable or unsustainable. We must also bear in mind that mainstream permaculture in the United States is enjoying a following not so dissimilar to that enjoyed by astrologists.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:01 PM   #6
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From reading some of these permaculture articles and the no -till article I'm learning that mother nature hates bare soil and will soon cover it with weeds.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:22 PM   #7
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mother nature hates bare soil and will soon cover it with weeds.

Sprucetree: No. A permaculturist would say, the weeds are the first phase at recovery to a damaged soil. Cover the weeds with cardboard, and plant an ecologically viable designed ecosystem--which may or may not include native plants. But, most permaculturists would agree it is much easier to get an ecosystem going with native plants than not. Usually the recommendation is if you can't get native plants, at least stay within the same genus and/or family.

You can see from Cirsium's remarks, permaculture has not found a home at wildlifegardeners. His statements are not true: a permaculture design cannot include invasive plants, because then it would not work. The test of a permaculture design is whether or not it functions as an ecosystem. By definition invasive plants cannot fit into an ecosystem. the presence of invasive plants is a symptom that the system is sick and needs repair.

I think some permaculturists do use certain plants as "nitrogen fixers" to help restore damaged soil, but that is only an initial phase in a plan. That is not to say permaculture favors those particular plants.

I think there may be some people who have corrupted the concept of permaculture--especially with the permaculture design certification classes, but that certainly does not represent the international movement's intent or principles.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
... You can see from Cirsium's remarks, permaculture has not found a home at wildlifegardeners. His statements are not true: a permaculture design cannot include invasive plants, because then it would not work. ...
Here's a discussion where leading permaculturlists disagree with your contention that a permaculture design cannot include invasive plants:
Permaculture’s Internal Contradiction
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirsium View Post
Although permaculture has some good ideas...

More to the point, permaculture has a fatal ecological flaw. It does not support natural ecosystems. It only wants to 'mimic' them. It mimics them in any way that suits the human needs of the permaculturalist. Invasive species are used (and encouraged) without concern for the potential ecological damage. The damage done by invasive species is denied, and the concept of invasive species is twisted into a self-serving 'nativist conspiricy'.
:
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Originally Posted by WG Admin View Post
Let's be careful-
Thank you, Cirsium and WG Admin for keeping us grounded and aware of the limitations of something that sounds quite good that I've read little about.
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Last edited by dapjwy; 02-13-2013 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Adding italics
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:11 PM   #10
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Permaculture promotes an alternate way of farming; it doesn’t solve any environmental problems. Period. Furthermore- many/not all permaculturists are exacerbating environmental problems of our time.

The aim of the permaculture project was to propagate a grassroots environmental movement. They’re social activists for Christ’s sake.

They plant what suits their desires. Keep that in mind will you. We don't want a conflict w/ our Mission Statement.
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