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Old 01-03-2015, 10:51 AM   #21
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Your signature quote just made me laugh, Rebek. I have both a garden AND a library....problem is, they are both slightly (or more than slightly) unorganized! Hence, why I can't put my hands on the book at the moment .
That sounds like me too kat. There is never enough time for me to be organised inside or outside the house.
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Old 01-07-2015, 05:07 PM   #22
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I think of it this way, we have a lot of species dependent on a certain group of plants or in some cases event wholly dependent on just 1 plant. If something comes in and takes away space that plant used, the dependents have lost habitat even though it is still "wild". I think invasive vegetation is certainly a concern and disease from any foreign vegetation or insects also a very huge concern. For the generalist species the effects might be less obvious as they may simply use new or other vegetation, but the specialist species in particular I don't see how anyone could deny a very real concern.

Even for reptiles, vegetation that takes away prime basking areas is a concern in many areas. Ironically, a lack of disturbance may cause harm to some reptile populations and invasive vegetation accelerating the closure of sun to those sites is certainly no help. I would argue that red cedar is invasive on MO glades and the efforts to scale it back should be greatly increased even though it's technically a native plant.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:38 PM   #23
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I think of it this way, we have a lot of species dependent on a certain group of plants or in some cases event wholly dependent on just 1 plant. If something comes in and takes away space that plant used, the dependents have lost habitat even though it is still "wild". I think invasive vegetation is certainly a concern and disease from any foreign vegetation or insects also a very huge concern. For the generalist species the effects might be less obvious as they may simply use new or other vegetation, but the specialist species in particular I don't see how anyone could deny a very real concern.
Thank you, midwesternerr. Another well thought out post.

I guess you are preaching to the choir here--and that was part of my concern: not that people with an understanding of the issues would be swayed much...but that people with little understanding of the issues would ignore the real threat of invasive plants--or, even as you state (and I tend to agree) "better behaved" non-native plants that are taking up the space a native could occupy--but also altering the habitat in ways I hadn't even thought about.

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Even for reptiles, vegetation that takes away prime basking areas is a concern in many areas. Ironically, a lack of disturbance may cause harm to some reptile populations and invasive vegetation accelerating the closure of sun to those sites is certainly no help. I would argue that red cedar is invasive on MO glades and the efforts to scale it back should be greatly increased even though it's technically a native plant.
Is red cedar native to MO? or just native to North America in general? I guess I'm trying to figure out if it would naturally occur on the glades (but has become a nuisance because there is not enough natural areas left in various stages of succession or what). If its natural range extends that far, I prefer to call it "an aggressive native" than "an invasive"--I guess I just don't want to muddy the waters of the definition of "invasive"...however, if it is not naturally occurring but brought in from other areas of the US (its natural range), then I understand the term "invasive" being used. Perhaps it is semantics or just me.

For example, there are blue spruce (native to the Rocky Mountain area, I think) that people have used in landscapes here in the Mid-Atlantic states (and beyond, I'm sure); I do not view them as native (not native to my area). I plan to remove the three that were here on our property when we bought it--actually, I plan to girdle them so they become snags. They do not appear to be invasive--as far as I can see, they seem to grow only where they are planted (but, perhaps there are young blue spruce germinating somewhere). I see them as non-native...but, if they did spread uncontrollably into natural areas, I guess I would use the term invasive.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:20 PM   #24
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I am not sure how long cedars have been in MO. Fire suppression is definitely the problem with them right now, though.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:38 PM   #25
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I am not sure how long cedars have been in MO. Fire suppression is definitely the problem with them right now, though.
I agree that, even if the cedars are native to the area, with so little natural prairies left, I can see how losing habitat to the cedars would be an issue. In my mind, if there were anywhere close to the original expanse of prairie left...and cedars were part of the natural succession, then, at any given time, there should be plenty of areas in early, middle, and late succession, and all would be well.
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Old 01-10-2015, 08:31 PM   #26
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I think of it this way, we have a lot of species dependent on a certain group of plants or in some cases event wholly dependent on just 1 plant. If something comes in and takes away space that plant used, the dependents have lost habitat even though it is still "wild". I think invasive vegetation is certainly a concern and disease from any foreign vegetation or insects also a very huge concern. For the generalist species the effects might be less obvious as they may simply use new or other vegetation, but the specialist species in particular I don't see how anyone could deny a very real concern.

Even for reptiles, vegetation that takes away prime basking areas is a concern in many areas. Ironically, a lack of disturbance may cause harm to some reptile populations and invasive vegetation accelerating the closure of sun to those sites is certainly no help. I would argue that red cedar is invasive on MO glades and the efforts to scale it back should be greatly increased even though it's technically a native plant.
Very well stated, midwesterner!
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