anyone growing NJ Tea w Black Walnut?

[bubbleoffplumb]

originally I was going to plant some Ceanothus americanus in the general location of my Black Walnut trees.
I double checked the tolerance lists online and of course there's conflicting information.

anyone have experience with these two - do they play well together?

thanks

[TheLorax]

I don't think it is juglone tolerant. One of the members here authored something on the juglone tolerant species. There are so many that can be planted in the juglone zone. Many more than what you might think even though Ceanothus might not do all that well.

[bubbleoffplumb]

a lot of people think it's barren under the walnuts - but we know better

One of the members here authored something on the juglone tolerant species.

is it located at this forum? I would certainly be interested in that.

I think I'll err on the side of caution. I only have a few plants and it's my understanding that they don't transplant very well.

thank you for responding Lorax.

[Equilibrium]

Black Walnut (Juglans Nigra) is allelopathic but that in not that big of a deal. Come to think of it, Butternut is allelopathic too. Lots of great plants can grow under and around them.

Here are some species I have maintained notes on that allegedly can grow fine in the "toxic zone", I wish it wasn't referred to as the "toxic zone".

Eastern Redbud (Cercis canadensis)
Witchhazel (Hamanelis spp.)
Carolina Silverbell (Halesia carolina)
Tuliptree (Liriodendron tulipifera)
Hawthorn (Crataegus spp.)
River Birch (Betula nigra)
Dogwood (Cornus spp.)
Serviceberry (Amelanchier spp.)
Eastern Ninebark (Physocarpus opulifolius)
Spice bush (Lindera spp.)
Arrowwood Viburnum (Viburnum dentatum)
Crested Wood Fern (Dryopteris cristata)
Senstitive Fern (Onoclea sensibilis)
Marginal Shield Fern (Dryopteris marginalis)
Cinnamon Fern (Osmunda cinnamomea)
Christmas Fern (Polystichum acrostichoides)
Lady Fern (Athyrium filix-femina)
Sweet Woodruff (Galium odoratum)
Jerusalem Artichoke (Helianthus tuberosus)
Merrybells (Uvularia grandiflora)
Meadow Rue (Thalictrum polycarpum)
Jack-In-The-Pulpit (Arisaema triphyllum)
Virginia Waterleaf (Hydrophyllum virginianum)
Wild Bergamot (Monarda fistulosa)
Sweet Cicely (Myrrhis odorata)
Virginia Creeper (Parthenocissus quinquefolia)
American Wood Anemone (Anemone quinquefolia)
Dutchman's Breeches (Dicentra cucullaria)
Bleeding Heart (Dicentra spectabilis)
Mayapple (Podophyllum peltatum)
Jacob's-Ladder (Polemonium reptans)
Great Solomon's-Seal (Polygonatum commutatum)
Bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis)
Nodding Trillium (Trillium cernuum)
White Wake-Robin (Trillium grandiflorum)
Canada Violet (Viola canadensis)
Horned Violet (Viola cornuta)
Woolly Blue Violet (Viola sororia)

I added the common names to the above list. I have several Black Walnuts and grass seems to grow perfectly fine under them. I am slowly but surely eliminating my lawn though. For me I am choosing to try ferns in and around one Black Walnut. The ferns seem to be perfectly fine so far. In the vicinity of another Black Walnut I have planted RedBud and Bloodroot. So far no issues. American Fringetree and Hazelnut do not do well and that is from personal experience. Over the years I'll try more species. The Virginia Waterleaf is one that I think will really take off under a Black Walnut so I plan on moving those over and under one of my little Black Walnuts. I have a neighbor who has a type of Solomon's Seal growing in and around a Black Walnut so that looks safe too. It seems as if there may be quite a bit available that will grow fine near Black Walnut. These are my personal notes. I have no idea where I originally got this information. Sorry, sometimes I keep really good notes and sometimes I don't. I'm sure the original list was considerably longer but I would have only kept the names of plants that interested me. There will be more out there and you can always look to the native plant community for more species.

Hope this helps and I hope others add to this list as I've got three of these trees on my property and I love them.

[Equilibrium]

Although all of our native walnuts are useful to wildlife, it is the eastern Black Walnut that is of recognized importance for its value to cavity nesters in general, denners, Woodpeckers, Chipmunks, and four species of squirrels, Landowner's Guide: Squirrels
Woodpeckers and the management of woodpecker damage , and about those messy limbs that fall off from time to time as the tree matures, Show-Me Spring Squirrel Hunting "Look for mature trees of these species that have broken limbs and damaged trunks. These often lead to cavities. Holes 3- to 4-inches in diameter in the sides of trees, formed where limbs rotted and fell, are also used as dens." Other than that, I leave them lay where they fall to create biomass for the soil. It is true they drop their fruits. Around me they are gone in the blink of an eye. Perhaps my immediate area has more diversity and therefore supports more wildlife than those who claim they have to rake, Messages from the Wild - Lewis and Clark - Sierra Club "Acorns are dropping like hail, and black walnuts are miniature eight balls on the ground, except where fox squirrels have opened them, extracted the "meat," and produced halves with owl faces. Today's seed dispersal agents are blue jays, crows, red-bellied woodpeckers, and the squirrels, all contending loudly at particular trees. Is their cue the most, largest, or best-tasting nuts? Everybody is storing in preparation for winter. Crows fill their gullets but fly too far to see. Blue jays put theirs in the ground or, like red-bellies, in standing deadwood at edges. Squirrels cut and carry nuts, or cut twigs then race to the ground and plant the nuts, patting the soil in place with one hand and then the other."

It is said the protein of a Black Walnut is almost double that of the increasingly popular English Walnut. Black Walnut truly is an invaluable species in my humble opinion. Look to this site to see some plants that can be grown under Black Walnuts, WDNR - Wyalusing Walnut Forest State Natural Area If interested in looking for information on which species will do best go back to the native plant community and search for lists of indigenous plants that would have been found growing naturally near a Black Walnut. Mixed mesophytic forests community types can be reviewed for inspiration. The first plant that sticks out in my mind as being a great companion plant would be Ostrya virginiana (American Hophornbeam/Ironwood). There are many common herbaceous species that will grow quite nicely in and amongst Black Walnuts listed in the previous post so if we do ultimately choose to add more black walnuts, we will be able to have some very beautiful woodland flowers. Plant associations for Cook County are out there. They are out there for other counties too. Little bit of information on the ecosystems in which it occurs, AllRefer - Species: Black Walnut | Juglans nigra > Distribution and occurrence Here’s an example of a plant community in which Black Walnut can be found. Lists of plants that might work well, http://www.greatrivergreening.org/_downloads/mesicoakforest.doc and, http://www.greatrivergreening.org/_downloads/dryoakforest.doc
On growing Black Walnut, Growing Black Walnut

I love black walnuts. Can you tell?

[JennyC]

Just for the record, you can grow an entire veggie garden in the ground in the toxic zone, with an extra bonus black walnut seedling marking the point where four beds come togeher (it became a trellis support for my crowder peas, in fact). I do avoid mulching with walnut hulls on purpose, but I eventually gave up on tossing fallen nuts out of the beds -- there were just too many (the garden is ringed by 13 mature black walnut trees). So, for my money, the alleopathic effects are way overrated. (The shade was much more of a problem.) Perhaps they've been talked up by sellers of English Walnut trees?

[Equilibrium]

I agree the alleopathy is way overrated. The big deal is all the people trying to plant sun-loving ornamentals underneath the tree then wondering why they don't make it.

[joepyeweed]

I couldn't grow tomatoes under a black walnut. It took me about 3 years to figure out what the problem was.... I moved the maters to the other side of the garden - away from the tree and they were fine.

[JennyC]

Hmm. You know... The rutgers which laughed at me were closer to the ring o' walnuts than the Romas which did so well.

Possibility there. But then Rutgers are noted for being picky anyway. And they did make, just late.

But I'll see if I can corral the big tomatoes toward the center of the garden, away from the trees, and see if they do better this year.

How far out from a walnut is the "toxic zone" supposed to spread?

[bubbleoffplumb]

I agree that allelopathy is overrated
but it does exist.
There are many things that can grow happily around black walnuts - even some vegetables.
But tomatoes and other nightshades are very susceptible to juglone.

JennyC, this may be useful:
Juglone and Black Walnut (Juglans nigra L.)

thank you for all that info Equilibrium .
this:

If interested in looking for information on which species will do best go back to the native plant community and search for lists of indigenous plants that would have been found growing naturally near a Black Walnut

is the sorta stuff I'm most interested in.

my issue with online sources about tolerance is that they are inconsistent with many plants (ninebark, hackberry, serviceberry to name a few).
that's why I also like to ask about personal experiences.