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Old 05-23-2010, 08:37 PM   #11
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World population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

fertility rates in some populations are already affected.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:16 AM   #12
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A half-million years ago, there were no wolves in North America, they came over the same land bridge from Russia that man followed years later. So, any arguments that wolves were native here are pure malarky. Since the arrival of man, probably 20,000 years ago, man and wolf have competed for dominance of meat food sources. Man, being the true APEX predator, won that scrap. If wolves are to be here, they have to be very closely managed. And for those who want to argue that ANY Canis lupus is the same Canis lupus - that's about like saying that any subspecies of cattle are the same cattle. Taxonomists determined the different subspecies of wolves decades ago because there were distinct differences that made them different. The wolf that inhabited the Northern U.S. Rockies was Canis lupus irremotus. When USFWS stole upwards of $70-million dollars from sportsman provided Pittman Robertson funds (money earmarked for wildlife & fisheries habitat improvement) to fund the illegal introduction of larger Canadian wolves (columbianus and occidentallis) the agency manipulated wolf science to quickly expedite dumping the wrong wolf here to give them a quick foothold - before the theft of the money was discovered - and the project halted. USFWS also wrongly used that same money to build a new USFWS Region Office in California, and for upper USFWS management to give themselves big bonuses. Like it or not wolf lovers, the Wolf Recovery Project is riddled with lies, deceit and theft. And as the truth becomes known, the tide of public sentiment is changing rapidly. Those involved with stealing from Pittman Robertson funds, And reverting to lies, deceit and violating federal laws will eventually be held accountable. Some will do time behind bars.
It has only taken 15 years for the illegally introduced Canadian Grey Wolf to have a massive impact on our wildlife. For over 80 years "Sportsmen" not Defenders of wildlife, have worked to build elk, deer, and moose populations, and purchase vast tracts of land. Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming are under siege from the Canadian Grey Wolf.
Just because the corrupt USFWS has changed the name of the invasive species, doesn't make it native to our ecosystem.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:31 AM   #13
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What about those 'Canadian' wolves that have appeared on their own in NW Montana and Idaho. They came back to older territory they were extirpated from in the late 1800's through 1924? You may call them invasive, or were they pioneers? It's all in how you view a healthy and intact ecosystem. And yes, these wolves were in NW Montana long before the YNP reintroduction program.

And if we need to manage non-native animals, let's start with the cattle in Montana that are in conflict with the native bison ... better yet, let's raise cattle to feed the wolves so they will leave the elk alone.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:15 AM   #14
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rondo: by your argument native american human populations are not native to the N. American continent.

To me it does not make sense to push back the definition of native to occupation by a species 20,000 B.P.

The definition of native has got to have a functional definition that relates to the animal species' role in the ecosystem --- not to years before present.

By the way--dogs came with native americans probably even before the Bering St. migrations--so native american dogs by your calculations predate wolves on the N. American continent. [Maybe they do]

Earliest Dogs in North America: Natural History Notebooks
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:24 AM   #15
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Approximately 40 million years ago, during the Eocene era, the various clades of the order Carnivora were already well defined, with groups of Felids, Canids, Mustelids, and Viverrids filling almost every available ecosystem niche capable of supporting life (Bekoff, et al., 1984). The Canini Tribe, a sub-group of Canidae, appeared in the new world near the beginning of the Pleistocene era, appearing somewhere around 1.8 million years ago and some 38 million years after their ancestors came down from the trees (Xiaoming, et al., 2004). Their primitive ancestors, who were fox-like in form, speciated in order to better exploit the available ecosystem niches, eventually giving rise to these two separate lineages, Canis rufus (Red wolf) and Canis latrans (Coyote).

Of these two species, only C. rufus dispersed from the new world into the old world. In the old world, Canis lupus (Grey wolf) evolved from C. rufus and further speciated into two lineages. One lineage developed into the extant small, warm-adapted wolves of southern Eurasia while the other lineage evolved to fill niches in the much colder, northern ecosystems (Xiaoming, et al., 2004). Not all of the grey wolves stayed in the old world; many re-entered the new world around 700,000 years ago via land bridges that appeared during the Pleistocene Ice Age as glaciers locked up water, which resulted in lowered sea levels. Eventually as the Pleistocene Ice Age ended and the land bridges flooded, the grey wolves that migrated back to the new world became separated from their siblings in the old world. Due to this vicariance event, the wolves of the new world evolved, becoming C. lupus nubilus, while those remaining in the old world became known as C. lupus lupus (Bekoff, et al., 1984). These new world wolves were not alone though; they returned to find that Canis dirus (Dire wolf), C. latrans, and C. rufus were already filling most of the easily available and exploitable niches that existed within the North American ecosystems (Xiaoming, et al., 2004).The dire wolf, a somewhat larger, more robust form of wolf, had evolved in North America earlier. The dire wolf and grey wolf shared the continent for nearly half a million years, until the dire wolf, along with many other large Pleistocene species, died out in the Great Ice Age extinction of 16,000 years ago (Van Valkenburgh, 1999).
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rondo769 View Post
And for those who want to argue that ANY Canis lupus is the same Canis lupus - that's about like saying that any subspecies of cattle are the same cattle. Taxonomists determined the different subspecies of wolves decades ago because there were distinct differences that made them different. The wolf that inhabited the Northern U.S. Rockies was Canis lupus irremotus.
North American Subspecies of Canis lupus
  • Canis lupus alces (Kenai Peninsula Wolf) - Extinct. Large Alaskan wolf subspecies. The determination of species and size of the animal was accomplished by using recovered skulls.
  • Canis lupus arctos (Melville Island Wolf, Arctic wolf) - Only occurs on the arctic islands from Melville Island to Ellesmere Island. Can weigh up to 175 lb., fur is usually white or off-white. They mature the latest, at 3 years. Breeding season is in April-May. 2-3 cubs are born beige. They eat arctic hares, musk ox, lemmings, voles, and caribou, with rodents comprising a large part of their diet.
  • Canis lupus baileyi (Mexican Wolf) - Smallest of the North American wolves, weighing from 60-90 lb. It occupies the most southern territory. It lives in the Sierra Madre and the surrounding region of western Mexico. It is generally dark and grizzly colored. They have the largest mane of any wolf. It once roamed the areas of Arizona and New Mexico. Mexican wolves will eat deer, elk, bighorn sheep, pronghorn antelope, rabbits, wild pigs known as javelina, and rodents. In 1960, the last known wild Mexican wolf was shot.
  • Canis lupus beothucus (Newfoundland Wolf) - Extinct. This was almost pure white and of medium size.
  • Canis lupus bernardi (Banks Island Tundra Wolf) - Banks Island in the Northwest Territories. It is a large and rangy looking animal. Its color was mostly white with black-tipped hairs along the mid of the back.
  • Canis lupus columbianus (British Columbian Wolf) - British Columbia, Canada. It is among the largest of the wolves. This animal can weigh as much as 140 pounds. This wolf's color is generally either grey or black, the blacks being the larger of the two.
  • Canis lupus crassodon (Vancouver Island Wolf) - Medium size and is greyish-black in color.
  • Canis lupus fuscus (Cascade Mountains Wolf) - Possibly extinct. Once known as the "brown wolf" because of its cinnamon or buff color. It is a medium sized animal, weighing about 80 to 90 pounds.
  • Canis lupus hudsonicus (Hudson Bay Wolf) - A light-colored wolf of medium size having a winter coat that is nearly white. It is often called a "tundra wolf." It lives in the area west and north of the Hudson Bay. It migrates south with the caribou herd.
  • Canis lupus griseoalbus (Manitoba Wolf) - Supposedly to roams in central Manitoba and northern Saskatchewan. It has never been validated that this wolf exists.
  • Canis lupus irremotus (Northern Rocky Mountain Wolf) - Medium to large light-colored animal. The original range of this animal included the northern Rocky Mountains including southern Alberta, Canada. In the United States it is considered extinct. Recent reports of a few wolves in Glacier National Park, Montana may indeed be wolves of this subspecies.
  • Canis lupus labradorius (Labrador Wolf) - Varies in color from dark grey to almost white. It is a medium size wolf that occurs throughout northern Quebec and Labrador.
  • Canis lupus ligoni (Alexander Archipelago Wolf) - Smaller than most wolves in North America. It has short hair and is dark in color. A black phase is common. A black phase is grey colored fur underneath black fur.
  • Canis lupus lycaon (Eastern timber wolf) - Had the most extensive range of any other subspecies. Its original range covered the eastern United States, including Florida and west to Minnesota. Variety of coloration.
  • Canis lupus mackenzii (Mackenzie Tundra Wolf) - Medium sized wolf, color ranges from black to white. It lives along the arctic coast in the Northwest Territories eastward from the Mackenzie River and south to Great Bear Lake.
  • Canis lupus manningi (Baffin Island Tundra Wolf) - Smallest of the arctic wolves. It occurs on Baffin Island.
  • Canis lupus mogollonensis (Mogollon Mountain Wolf) - Extinct. Used to occur in central Arizona and New Mexico. The coloration was usually dark with some white.
  • Canis lupus monstrabilis (Texas Grey Wolf) - Extinct. Used to occur in Texas and northeastern Mexico. Its members were usually small and dark colored. There were some whites.
  • Canis lupus nubilus (Great Plains Wolf, Buffalo Wolf) - Once occurred from southern Manitoba and Saskatchewan, Canada, to northern Texas. This was a medium sized animal with great variability in color. It was thought to be extinct by 1926, but studies indicate that the wolves in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Upper Michigan are C. lupus nubilus.
  • Canis lupus occidentalis (Mackenzie Valley Wolf) - Occurs in the upper Mackenzie River Valley southward into Alberta. It represented some largest wolves in North America. The color of these animals varies from black to almost pure white.
  • Canis lupus orion (Greenland Wolf) - Possibly extinct. No evidence exists that this is a distinct species. Many scientists believe these animals are part of the subspecies: C. lupus arctos.
  • Canis lupus pambasileus (Interior Alaskan Wolf) - Among the largest in North America. These wolves roam throughout the interior of Alaska, except the tundra region of the arctic coast.
  • Canis lupus tundrarum (Alaska Tundra Wolf) - A large wolf with long light colored fur. It ranges along the tundra region of Alaska's arctic coast.
  • Canis lupus youngi (Southern Rocky Mountain Wolf) - Extinct. This wolf used to live in the Rocky Mountain region of Nevada, Utah, and Colorado. It was a medium size animal having light-colored fur.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:27 PM   #17
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It appears that Rondo will not be swayed in his thoughts/beliefs. He is entitled to that and I applaud him for sticking to his heart-felt convictions. It takes a strong willed person to stand their ground and up hold their beliefs when faced with overwhelming evidence contrary to what they believe in.
I, for one believe that ALL native species deserve an equal opportunity to survive and not be hunted for sport. I think that if someone wants to kill something for fun, kill some time and read a book.

Thanks Dave for the research, I did not know there were so many different species of wolves!
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:44 PM   #18
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http://vanessaleighsblog.files.wordp.../gray_wolf.jpg

I am treated to a wolf-song almost every day when the ambulance passes on the highway below me. My dogs are remembering somehow an ancestral song. My chow-border collie Roscoe knows it so well--having learned from Sylvia malamute.

Little Emmagreyhound only knows how to produce an unmelodeous screech.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:09 PM   #19
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...
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