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Old 02-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #11
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Did anyone notice the negativity (by some) towards The Lorax movie?
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:22 PM   #12
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Hadn't heard about that, but I did hear that the recent Muppets movie incurred the wrath of some folks also because they felt it was anti-capitalism. I haven't seen it, so I can't comment. I might check out the Lorax, looks like it might be entertaining, from what I've seen in the trailer.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:23 AM   #13
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We saw the Muppet movie and thought that it was basically O.K. but that it got a bit 'campy' in spots...
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by jpdenk View Post
Hadn't heard about that, but I did hear that the recent Muppets movie incurred the wrath of some folks also because they felt it was anti-capitalism.
I just heard a quick blurb...and come to think of it, they mentioned the Muppets too...but I didn't realize that was their reason.

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We saw the Muppet movie and thought that it was basically O.K. but that it got a bit 'campy' in spots...
I have no desire to see the movie...but I do remember enjoying The Muppets weekly TV series.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:55 PM   #15
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I'm just not finding the video disturbing. I guess we’re all going to take home a different message based on our life experiences and beliefs. My experiences with Christians have been extremely positive and I can thankfully say I haven’t encountered any of the Christians jpdenk mentions. Of the people I know who I would classify as “stereotypical” extreme right winging Christians… I’ve found them to be opposed to just what I typed out before, “genetic modification of organisms, Agenda 21, carbon markets, geoengineering of the heavens, and Codex Alimentarius”. I should add that they don't share my voting record but do seem to share my definition of BigGreen which I’m beginning to feel may be a matter of personal interpretation here. Anywhooo… I've found “right wingers” most likely to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to the poor. Travel just about anywhere in this “global” community where the poorest of poor are and we WILL find them in numbers too big to ignore educating on things like basic hygiene and first aid while providing relief and care. I give em credit for their “Missionary” work. A friend of mine who is a WI Synod Lutheran told me they go where their “angels” fear to tread and I’m pretty sure there’s quite a bit more than a sliver of truth to what she said based on the hellholes her “people” are camped out in for weeks…. months… sometimes years on end when they answer a “call”. Quite a few I know personally from Doctors Without Borders I’d “label” as extreme right winger Christians. Only significant difference between them and me is while I’m quite comfortable volunteering locally where law enforcement has a presence and steering clear of hellholes where death and disease run rampant when “vacationing”… they’re using their vacation time volunteering in those hellholes most prefer to “experience” from afar AND… while I’m totally content donating clothing, non-perishables, $$$, and buying their kids’ “stuff” from the safety of my own home…. they’re donating time delivering medical supplies and other services to those suffering in person. And they do this all for an opportunity to spread the word of Jesus where few…. if any…. speak English>? I could care less what really motivates them to do what they do and I’m well aware a handful of extremists believe I’m going to rot in hell for the rest of eternity for not accepting Jesus into my heart but…. what they believe about me doesn’t matter when they’re planting seeds in fields, building clinics, and holding hands and stroking heads while spoon feeding those too weak to feed themselves. So do I think folk like this would be up in arms over feeling duped by BigGreen and its “stakeholders” perceived exploitation of the huddled masses and their lands while advancing social justice policies that many from all walks of life are just now realizing might not be consistent with their personal belief systems … yup. Am I surprised more and more are speaking out against the EPA, FDA, USDA and crimes against humanity such as the foisting of gm seed on the people of poor countries…. nope. Here are other groups capable of commanding my respect sharing some of the very same concerns the right wingers I know have expressed, www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/, Coalition Against Geoengineering, Living Farms - Campaign against Genetically Modified Organisms, The Moral Liberal, Doctors against vaccines, and Natural health news.
--
jpdenk> “Do a little research on the people who show up later in the video to get a better idea of where they're coming from.” I don’t know any of these people in real life. I could research them all day long and I still wouldn’t have a solid working knowledge of their belief systems. They very well could be all that you claim they are or even some sort of a cult and I’d be none the wiser. I took what they said at face value is all. For what it’s worth… charismatics rarely seem capable of attracting any but those with weak and unquestioning personalities.
--
I’m not finding any Christian groups that want to do away with all environmental laws and I looked for them online soon as you modified your original reply. I did find “Christians” on discussion forums wanting to do away with progressives letting big corporations steal from the next generation and there was buzz about some trillion dollar lawsuit and some state passing a doomsday law. Believe it or not.... I found many of the same environmental concerns expressed at a ChristianForum that I'd already read at the AtheistForums and then the same buzz about a 1T lawsuit and some doomsday law. Go figure... more folk than not seem to be on the same current events and mainstream “environmental” page.
--
benj1> “A collection of sound bytes, conveying nothing of substance. Probably only convincing to those already on that train.” I’m pretty sure you’re right about any extremists out there. They’d be preaching to their own choir.
--
jack> Mainstream environmentalism is alive and well so… I don’t think the pendulum is gonna swing back on LittleGreen. It’s becoming more and more a way of life for an ever increasing number of us by conscientious choice. I do think social justice environmentalism is gonna keep taking blows as more begin following the $$$ so who knows where BigGreen (IoM, Monsanto, BASF, Cargill, DuPont, Bayer, Dow, Syngenta, Vale, De Beers, Simplot, E.ON Climate & Renewables, Blattner Energy, Solyndra, NextEra Energy, GE, Merck, Apple [phthalate issues], Alcoa, Chevron, Massey, AquaBounty, Eli Lilly, Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline,… ad finitum) will land once the dust settles.
--
Dappy> “I don't think that that is the message they are sending at all...or, if they are, that is NOT how their intended audience will view it.” We all bring personal bias to the table so…. “my cup is half full” outlook on life isn’t letting me believe all those Christians in that video are “a very, very dangerous bunch” but…. we can say for the sake of argument that they represent some sort of a cult out there that’s preying on the weak, “indoctrinating followers”, “setting things up”, and “making their move”…. does any fringe extremist group have enough power… or enough resources…. not to mention enough leadership with credibility to ram any belief system down the throats of someone like me or jpdenk or you or… WG Admin? It’s not gonna happen even in their wildest wettest dreams. It’s not like they have the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, George Soros, or Bill Gates backing them financially. Seriously, the only entity I see successfully exploiting the environment and the human race is…. BigGreen.
--
No negativity for The Lorax so far. Some wondering if Universal’s “adaptation” will be true to the original book. I haven’t seen the movie or any of the trailers and neither has anyone else I know so it’s wait and see. It’ll probably come up as a topic of conversation the 1st work day for the preserves after the movie’s released. Universal’s choice of marketing partners did come up. Most have seen the ad for the SUV online and eyes are rolling.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Make no mistake about it environmentalism is no longer your friend.
It is your enemy... and the battle is primarily spiritual...
Quote:
I am always on the alert to threats to the Christian faith, and make no mistake, environmentalism is exactly that
.

These are blanket statements...nowhere does it say that "BigGreen" is bad, just that "environmentalism" is a threat to one's Christian faith. So, caring about the environment is sinful?

Quote:
It (environmentalism) is its own religion.
...and it is a "threat to your religion". I do believe these statements are dangerous and will have a negative impact on laws that are geared to protect the environment (and the people who use that environment).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
I'm just not finding the video disturbing. I guess we’re all going to take home a different message based on our life experiences and beliefs. My experiences with Christians have been extremely positive and I can thankfully say I haven’t encountered any of the Christians jpdenk mentions. Of the people I know who I would classify as “stereotypical” extreme right winging Christians...
I think you make a good point about our life experiences influence our interpretation of things.

I think even with my sister (who continues to become more and more cultish in her beliefs) has a good heart and good motives based on her beliefs. I would never want anyone to think that I'm against people of the Christian faith (or any other faith for that matter).

You make great points about doing good works while doing missionary work (however, I do have issues with assuming that their belief system is the only correct one. --Again personal experience may be clouding my statements...but I've heard stories from my sister who visited Indian reservations with the intent of converting them.) I realize this is a sensitive topic, but my personal experiences do affect how I see things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
...I don’t know any of these people in real life. I could research them all day long and I still wouldn’t have a solid working knowledge of their belief systems. They very well could be all that you claim they are or even some sort of a cult and I’d be none the wiser. I took what they said at face value is all. For what it’s worth… charismatics rarely seem capable of attracting any but those with weak and unquestioning personalities...
Excellent point. You never cease to amaze me. Stereotypes are dangerous, and I commend you for stating that you'd have to learn to know the individuals before you could make blanket statements about them.

My concern (and I won't speak for others, although they may share the concern) is the *actions* of people and their goals. Again, as stated above, they have made a blanket statement that (all) environmentalism is evil and a threat to one's religion...there are people who will take this to heart and vote against anything that appears to be viewed as supporting the environment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
...does any fringe extremist group have enough power… or enough resources…. not to mention enough leadership with credibility to ram any belief system down the throats of someone....

It’s not gonna happen even in their wildest wettest dreams.
Thanks for the laugh (above statement).
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:45 AM   #17
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Eqi, first, read this article, it explains things really well. Read this too. And watch
of Christian Reconstructionist Joel McDurmon talking about the death penalty for gay people (he's all for it).

I'm not going to get into this any further other than to say that the Christian Reconstructionists and Dominionists are depending on most Americans thinking exactly as you're thinking. I resisted believing that they're a real threat when I first heard of them a few years back, but as I've learned more about the movement, I've come to believe that they have very significant potential to be a threat to democracy in the US.

John
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
I'm just not finding the video disturbing. I guess we’re all going to take home a different message based on our life experiences and beliefs. My experiences with Christians have been extremely positive and I can thankfully say I haven’t encountered any of the Christians jpdenk mentions. Of the people I know who I would classify as “stereotypical” extreme right winging Christians… I’ve found them to be opposed to just what I typed out before, “genetic modification of organisms, Agenda 21, carbon markets, geoengineering of the heavens, and Codex Alimentarius”. I should add that they don't share my voting record but do seem to share my definition of BigGreen which I’m beginning to feel may be a matter of personal interpretation here. Anywhooo… I've found “right wingers” most likely to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to the poor. Travel just about anywhere in this “global” community where the poorest of poor are and we WILL find them in numbers too big to ignore educating on things like basic hygiene and first aid while providing relief and care. I give em credit for their “Missionary” work. A friend of mine who is a WI Synod Lutheran told me they go where their “angels” fear to tread and I’m pretty sure there’s quite a bit more than a sliver of truth to what she said based on the hellholes her “people” are camped out in for weeks…. months… sometimes years on end when they answer a “call”. Quite a few I know personally from Doctors Without Borders I’d “label” as extreme right winger Christians. Only significant difference between them and me is while I’m quite comfortable volunteering locally where law enforcement has a presence and steering clear of hellholes where death and disease run rampant when “vacationing”… they’re using their vacation time volunteering in those hellholes most prefer to “experience” from afar AND… while I’m totally content donating clothing, non-perishables, $$$, and buying their kids’ “stuff” from the safety of my own home…. they’re donating time delivering medical supplies and other services to those suffering in person. And they do this all for an opportunity to spread the word of Jesus where few…. if any…. speak English>? I could care less what really motivates them to do what they do and I’m well aware a handful of extremists believe I’m going to rot in hell for the rest of eternity for not accepting Jesus into my heart but…. what they believe about me doesn’t matter when they’re planting seeds in fields, building clinics, and holding hands and stroking heads while spoon feeding those too weak to feed themselves. So do I think folk like this would be up in arms over feeling duped by BigGreen and its “stakeholders” perceived exploitation of the huddled masses and their lands while advancing social justice policies that many from all walks of life are just now realizing might not be consistent with their personal belief systems … yup. Am I surprised more and more are speaking out against the EPA, FDA, USDA and crimes against humanity such as the foisting of gm seed on the people of poor countries…. nope. Here are other groups capable of commanding my respect sharing some of the very same concerns the right wingers I know have

expressed,






www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/, Coalition Against Geoengineering, Living Farms - Campaign against Genetically Modified Organisms, The Moral Liberal, Doctors against vaccines, and Natural health news.




--
jpdenk> “Do a little research on the people who show up later in the video to get a better idea of where they're coming from.” I don’t know any of these people in real life. I could research them all day long and I still wouldn’t have a solid working knowledge of their belief systems. They very well could be all that you claim they are or even some sort of a cult and I’d be none the wiser. I took what they said at face value is all. For what it’s worth… charismatics rarely seem capable of attracting any but those with weak and unquestioning personalities.
--
I’m not finding any Christian groups that want to do away with all environmental laws and I looked for them online soon as you modified your original reply. I did find “Christians” on discussion forums wanting to do away with progressives letting big corporations steal from the next generation and there was buzz about some trillion dollar lawsuit and some state passing a doomsday law. Believe it or not.... I found many of the same environmental concerns expressed at a ChristianForum that I'd already read at the AtheistForums and then the same buzz about a 1T lawsuit and some doomsday law. Go figure... more folk than not seem to be on the same current events and mainstream “environmental” page.
--
benj1> “A collection of sound bytes, conveying nothing of substance. Probably only convincing to those already on that train.” I’m pretty sure you’re right about any extremists out there. They’d be preaching to their own choir.
--
jack> Mainstream environmentalism is alive and well so… I don’t think the pendulum is gonna swing back on LittleGreen. It’s becoming more and more a way of life for an ever increasing number of us by conscientious choice. I do think social justice environmentalism is gonna keep taking blows as more begin following the $$$ so who knows where BigGreen (IoM, Monsanto, BASF, Cargill, DuPont, Bayer, Dow, Syngenta, Vale, De Beers, Simplot, E.ON Climate & Renewables, Blattner Energy, Solyndra, NextEra Energy, GE, Merck, Apple [phthalate issues], Alcoa, Chevron, Massey, AquaBounty, Eli Lilly, Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline,… ad finitum) will land once the dust settles.
--
Dappy> “I don't think that that is the message they are sending at all...or, if they are, that is NOT how their intended audience will view it.” We all bring personal bias to the table so…. “my cup is half full” outlook on life isn’t letting me believe all those Christians in that video are “a very, very dangerous bunch” but…. we can say for the sake of argument that they represent some sort of a cult out there that’s preying on the weak, “indoctrinating followers”, “setting things up”, and “making their move”…. does any fringe extremist group have enough power… or enough resources…. not to mention enough leadership with credibility to ram any belief system down the throats of someone like me or jpdenk or you or… WG Admin? It’s not gonna happen even in their wildest wettest dreams. It’s not like they have the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, George Soros, or Bill Gates backing them financially. Seriously, the only entity I see successfully exploiting the environment and the human race is…. BigGreen.
--
No negativity for The Lorax so far. Some wondering if Universal’s “adaptation” will be true to the original book. I haven’t seen the movie or any of the trailers and neither has anyone else I know so it’s wait and see. It’ll probably come up as a topic of conversation the 1st work day for the preserves after the movie’s released. Universal’s choice of marketing partners did come up. Most have seen the ad for the SUV online and eyes are rolling.
Now, that's the Equilibrium that has been absent for awhile (I thought someone had kidnapped you and stolen your identity. :>)

Oh. BTW, I agree with something you say in there and disagree with much of what you say in there, but it would take too long to enumerate the whys and wherefores, and it would be to no purpose anyhow. Mixing religion and politics on a wildlife site is too delicate and demanding for my small, already confused
mind...
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #19
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Dappy> “….there are people who will take this to heart and vote against anything that appears to be viewed as supporting the environment.” For sure there are but fortunately…. they’re only a minute % of our population. Most of us go out of our way to avoid listening to anything that rocks our existing beliefs apple cart. It’s human nature which…. round robins to what benj said earlier because we humans really do have this proclivity to tune out those who can’t confirm our pre-existing beliefs. Anyone “tuning” into that kinda crap woulda already been voting against anything they even remotely perceived as supporting the environment.
--
jpdenk> I read the article as fear mongering…. I want as little of that in my life as possible. I hear ya loud and clear on Joel McDurmon though…. what can I say…. he’s obviously a “Christian” extremist who’s evidently right up there with Islamist extremists…. most of us can identify radicals …. they’re going to be identified as whack jobs by the majority. Here’s a few environmental extremist whack jobs, Ethicists Argue for Acceptance of After-Birth Abortions | TheBlaze.com. These esteemed Oxford “ethicists” just tried to advance an “Innovating to Zero” agenda in a scientific journal where those who are challenging them are already being labeled as “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society” by fellow “believers”. Try as some might…. some issues just won’t be able to be polarized like…. the death penalty for gays or eldercide. Those issues aren’t theist or atheist… environmentalist or opportunistic depletist…. left or right… as these extremists would have us to believe. Most people can think for themselves and lines in the sand will be drawn based on the ethics to which we collectively subscribe. I found the article at those atheist forums and…. infanticide was NOT received well as a viable depopulation strategy even though virtually every one over there believes as most do here that we’re fast approaching the Earth’s carrying capacity. Thank God mainstream theists have never been the ONLY folk with a well developed ethical system is about all I can say.
--
jack> Our youngest was in a sport that kept us hopping every weekend since early December…. it’s over now but…. last weekend we got a new dog…!!!
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:23 AM   #20
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Well, I'm not going to get into this any more here, I don't have the time to document all the stuff the pseudo-Christian extremists are doing.

All I'll say is that I've been following the advancement of the Christian Reconstructionist and/or Dominionist movement for years now, and I see lots of evidence that they are succeeding at getting their members or people sympathetic to them into elected office and have attained positions of influence very high in the American government. Their power is that reasonable people assume that their radical agenda will be rejected by any sane person, but the truth is that they have worked out ways to get people to follow their agenda without realizing that they are following an extremist agenda.

I hope your assessment is correct, but the evidence I've seen doesn't bear that out.

It takes some effort and digging to ferret out what they're doing,and most people can't be bothered to do the homework on this issue, that's another thing that makes them so dangerous.

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