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Old 02-27-2011, 08:38 AM   #21
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Default Directive from Biological Earthling Police

Program Philip,

You have been identified as an alien computerized robot designed to lower the guard of Homo Sapiens whilst your parent species (identity still unknown but suspected to be called Monsantians) proceeds to usurp from our evolutionary heritage valuable genetic information and claim it for themselves.

You are under inter-galactic, biological alert arrest. Further directions will be transmitted at a later date. In the meantime, clandestinely fabricated argumentative assertions will be outlawed from your programming. Even if you attempt to counter this order through disregard or contempt, the arguments you make will be found to be senseless and counterproductive.

Thank you for your attention.

Biological Earthling Police
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:14 AM   #22
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Oh man.

What gave it away?

To be honest, this human suit was causing my scales to get a bit rashy, and these new immigration laws are making human babies thin on the ground so I'm absolutely starving.

BTW I just got word that there are some spare cabins on the mother ship. If any of you guys need a lift, let me know. Note; I am not going to guarantee that there wont be probing involved.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:17 AM   #23
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Thanks very much for your post #20, Philip - a little enlightenment always helps, as we tend to fear most that which we do not understand.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:50 PM   #24
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Thanks suunto.

I thought maybe I had broken the cardinal rule of forums; Keep it short, stupid.

Like I said, I personally am in a grey area when it comes to this sort of thing. But I don't like weasel words, incitement of paranoia and so on.

The great thing about this group is: they are happy to listen to the likes of me, to the likes of someone that is not going to just echo their opinion and confirm what they know.
I am certainly not as open minded as I could be, and have a tendency (present in all of us maybe) to try to confirm what I "know" and discount conflicting viewpoints.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:10 PM   #25
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Whatever else is said I can not lose sight of the fact that many GMOS are created so that more herbicides may be used, lessen diversity within species, add more toxins within plant tissue and divise ways to ensure patent laws are strengthened.
This does not sound like a formula for food safety or security.
What I have seen so far does not suggest this technology is without risk . I say that caution is advisable and that funding for outside testing should be a requisite not hendered by patent law.
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:58 AM   #26
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Probably most of gardeners here would never pay the higher prices for the GM seed, And don't spray round-up on their veggies either, We all know Pesticides can be pretty indiscriminate in what insects it kills so we are careful with them too. Lets look at the legumes,, Most are nitrogen fixers and would benefit from inoculation. Where the real damage is done is when acres and acres are planted with GM seed that can tolerate Round-up. Years ago[Pre1999] most acres in agriculture had a fair amount of Milkweed and after a decade of spraying this tough perennial has nearly been extradited along with many other prairie weeds like sun choke which is a bumble bee favorite. Maybe the Monarch's can survive by what little milkweed grows in the ditches but most is mowed before the caterpillars mature.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
Whatever else is said I can not lose sight of the fact that many GMOS are created so that more herbicides may be used

From Lords of the Harvest (Charles, 2002, Amazon.com: Lords Of The Harvest: Biotech, Big Money, And The Future Of Food (9780738207735): Dan Charles: Books ):

"The Bt gene in both cases eliminated substantial spraying of insecticides. ... Commercial growers of sweet corn normally spray their fields with insectides five or six times during a growing season. Bt sweet corn, by contrast, requires only one spraying."

Roundup-ready products may reduce the variety and toxicity of herbicides sprayed.

I'm not a fan, but I don't think GMOs necessarily increase pesticide use.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by philip View Post
Thanks suunto.

I thought maybe I had broken the cardinal rule of forums; Keep it short, stupid.

Like I said, I personally am in a grey area when it comes to this sort of thing. But I don't like weasel words, incitement of paranoia and so on.

The great thing about this group is: they are happy to listen to the likes of me, to the likes of someone that is not going to just echo their opinion and confirm what they know.
I am certainly not as open minded as I could be, and have a tendency (present in all of us maybe) to try to confirm what I "know" and discount conflicting viewpoints.
I'm glad you're here, Philip.

I feel a little guilty for starting this thread, truly. I wanted to think about technology, and how sometimes it's helpful and sometimes it's not. I do think that the farmers at the start of the thread were put in a horrid economic bind... and that it was unwise of our multinationals to get involved... and that wisdom all around is something that we all can use more of.

GMO technology has the potential to do much good, but can also cause harm. I'm worried that the companies involved are not thinking through all the downsides.

I guess I am okay with GMO "tweaks" (analogous to what can be achieved via selective breeding) but am leery of larger changes. It's like in computer coding-- if you have a program that works, only make judicious mods, and keep your original source code in a safe directory. And don't ever create anything that goes viral.
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Calliandra View Post
I'm glad you're here, Philip.

I feel a little guilty for starting this thread, truly. I wanted to think about technology, and how sometimes it's helpful and sometimes it's not. I do think that the farmers at the start of the thread were put in a horrid economic bind... and that it was unwise of our multinationals to get involved... and that wisdom all around is something that we all can use more of.

GMO technology has the potential to do much good, but can also cause harm. I'm worried that the companies involved are not thinking through all the downsides.

I guess I am okay with GMO "tweaks" (analogous to what can be achieved via selective breeding) but am leery of larger changes. It's like in computer coding-- if you have a program that works, only make judicious mods, and keep your original source code in a safe directory. And don't ever create anything that goes viral.
Calliandra, please be assured that the introduction of the post was desired,needed, and fascinating. This is the issue of the day, and if not addressed by a group like our own that purports to be looking for the answers to wildlife gardening and the health of the biological world, than who would be interested in addressing it?

My earlier post was meant to add a bit of levity while communicating my disagreement with any such tinkering with an environment we still barely understand, especially by those whose primary aim is corporate, and hence personal, profit.

I'm much too cynical to believe that any of these companies are interested in the health of others when investing in such research.
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:16 PM   #30
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html


Quote:
Just as the heavy use of antibiotics contributed to the rise of drug-resistant supergerms, American farmers’ near-ubiquitous use of the weedkiller Roundup has led to the rapid growth of tenacious new superweeds
Quote:
To fight them, Mr. Anderson and farmers throughout the East, Midwest and South are being forced to spray fields with more toxic herbicides, pull weeds by hand and return to more labor-intensive methods like regular plowing
The superweeds could temper American agriculture’s enthusiasm for some genetically modified crops. Soybeans, corn and cotton that are engineered to survive spraying with Roundup have become standard in American fields. However, if Roundup doesn’t kill the weeds, farmers have little incentive to spend the extra money for the special seeds.
This is a good thread Calliandra. Philip's help in understanding is very welcome.
I have nothing against science or all large corporations (Haliburton and Monsanto excepted). I just think everyone should try to understand enough about what is being done to be able to make some evaluation of risk versus benefit; to keep the decisions from being made completely by those whose perspective may not include our own concerns.
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