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Old 04-20-2009, 10:10 AM   #11
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Sadly, there are lots of people who feed feral cats, some of them are even organized into local 501c3 charities! So much education needs to be done. Cats don't just attack birds, but bats, insects, and small reptiles, amphibians, and mammals as well. Basically everything that moves & is smaller than they are. And they do it even if they're not hungry; it's part of their instinct.
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:43 PM   #12
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I don't know if rainbowgardenr will log in under a different name or if her IP was banned, but some of the assumptions I think she may have been operating under were incorrect to begin with. First of all, I have no access to FTC2. I was simply providing information about an experimental product that is highly unlikely to be available to the general public, especially to those outside of Australia. Second, I have euthanized exactly zero cats in my entire lifetime. When I trap a cat, I take it to the humane society. If they determine that cat is feral, they do euthanize it because those cats cannot be made into pets. That is the determination that they have made and I have zero control over it. Otherwise they do an extensive search to find an adoptive home, provide the cat with shots, and advertise it at shows/websites. If I called animal control rather than trapping myself, every cat would automatically be euthanized with zero chance for adoption. Animal control here automatically does this even if it is clear it is a loose pet because they are overwhelmed with calls and too few cat owners ever pay for the fines/shots. Dogs get one chance if the owner can be found, because the owners are somewhat more likely to come claim them and pay the fines. Loose cats are against the city ordinance here. Feeding feral cats is also illegal in many places (not sure about here because no one does that to my knowledge). My neighbors have asked to borrow my traps and thanked me on many occasions because the cats were climbing on their cats, pooping in their gardens, and killing birds at their feeders. I have also received two complaints, one from a cat owner that let his animal run lose and was caught in the act and fined, and the other was someone who just liked the cats. On the other hand, I've received 5 or 6 compliments. I can't please them all, but so far the majority of the neighbors I've heard from are far happier today. So what is better, I let my neighbors call animal control and the cat has 100% chance of being euthanized, or I trap them (or loan my trap) and they go to the humane society where they have a chance to be adopted? Those are the two choices I have here.

People don't want loose cats, they went to the city and passed a law making it illegal. I'm not upset with this person at all, I care about the cats too. It's just that the owners did something irresponsbile and illegal, and now I am stuck cleaning up the mess and trying to get these things adopted before they wind up at animal control. You have to learn that your loose cats mean someone else's dead birds, frogs, etc. By letting your cats run loose, you infringe on everyones' rights to native wildlife. Trust me on this one, dozens of studies prove cats and native wildlife cannot co-exist. These things are the bush honeysuckles & kudzus of the animal world in the north america.
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Old 04-20-2009, 04:22 PM   #13
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My apologies to everyone at Wildlife Gardeners. I am the one who invited her to this site. I am absolutely sickened to learn she owns former ferals that she tamed up and lets outside. I am even more sickened to read how she tried to defend the rights of people to feed and care for feral cats that disappeared from a street near her. Since rabies vaccines are the law in Ohio, it is more likely those cats disappeared at the hands of public health officials after receiving numerous complaints. There are many people like rainbowgardener who value the life of an animal over the lives of humans who don't want to understand there are extremely valid reasons why feral cats aren't exactly embraced by communities where people are raising their children. What public health department needs the bad publicity of removing disease vectors when so many people aren't able to think rationally? Can you imagine the outrage they would have to deal with if they stated upfront they were going to remove ferals that residents were feeding and supposedly caring for because no one could provide certification the cats had been vaccinated? The feral cat advocates are very outspoken and they prey on the emotions of others to enforce their beliefs on others. I can't apologize enough for inviting her here. I thought she was a rationale adult capable of conducting herself appropriately. I was shocked to see the raving hysterical personal attacks at a wildlife gardening site of all places. Again, I am so sorry.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:20 PM   #14
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Well, we can't win em all! The person is misguided but probably a great person at heart. She does care about animals, she just needs to realize that her actions are killing a lot of animals! Just because she doesn't see it, doesn't mean it isn;t happening. I'd be glad to explain my reasons to her and listen to her concerns.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:14 PM   #15
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Default FTC2, a cat-specific toxin

Feral cats have completely wiped out the bobwhite quail that used to live on our property. When neighbors moved in with their cats, the quail disappeared. Some people blame it on fire ants and habitat destruction, but it's the cats that done 'em in. We still have mourning doves and many songbirds, but any bird that feeds on grass seed is unfair game for the feral cats that are breeding out of control in our rural area.
I have a lot of trouble with the use of FTC2 poison, though. Who knows how these toxins will impact the environment?
I do have dogs which take the occasional rabbit or squirrel, rarely. But they also keep cats away from the premises. I feel that they are part of a permaculture life--they guard the home and warn me when strangers drive up.
I do have a recommendation for gardeners who want to provide a native plant for quail and other wildlife--partridge pea (Chamaecrista fasciculata or Cassia fasciculata--or Cassia marilandica). I grew it last year and fell in love with it. It reseeds like crazy, is a beautiful flowering ornamental, makes beaucoup seedpods for birds and mammals, and can spread onto land where you want to recreate a prairie.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:15 PM   #16
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It isn't a matter of winning or losing. It's a matter of respect. The rainbowgardeners of our communities have no respect for our property and no respect for the wildlife that calls our property home let alone us or our children. It would be futile for you to attempt to explain your reasons to her. She may never be capable of accepting responsibility for the animals her feral cats have killed over the past 17 years. She is beyond misguided if she truly believes cats are appropriate predators for an ecosystem. People like this aren't capable of making the connection that one of the reasons why their cities don't have "very many hawks or owls" would be because their feral cats are out-competing raptors for food. These are selfish people who think only of themselves and what's in it for them. It makes them feel good to feed and care for ferals and who are we to deprive them of feeling good by bringing up things like facts. Let her go.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:56 PM   #17
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Hi Maypop,

There was a lot of concern when FTC2 first came into play because people were worried about other species of native animals. It was found to have very little impact on any other species. Even on the target species, a non lethal dose does little harm. It stands to reason that it should cause brain damage, but no one could produce a dose strong enough to do so that didn't also cause death... there is too little difference between the effective dose and the lethal dose. So what happened to the drug? Is it in use in Australia? Did the company decide it wasn't marketable? Were problems with the safety of efficacy found and silently the drug was dropped? I don't know the answer to those questions. The odds it will be available in North America do not seem likely, so no need for anyone to worry much.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:52 PM   #18
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Emotion v. logic. Nobody can win when people shut down their minds.
I have a hard time stomaching feral cat colony orgs being granted tax exempt status. Aren't, by their very nature, the existence of feral cat colonies in conflict with the endangered species act?
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:28 AM   #19
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Although the bias on behalf of the author in favor of TNR is more than evident, I do believe an attempt was made to address the concerns of those who are vehemently opposed to TNR-
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusferalcats.htm
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Last edited by Cirsium; 04-27-2009 at 03:25 PM. Reason: repaired link
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:25 PM   #20
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Default HR 669 update

Invasive Species Hearing to Be Webcast Live
Posted: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 8:12 p.m., EDT
excerpt from above:
Quote:
Thursday’s Congressional subcommittee hearing on a bill that could restrict the type of animal species available as pets will be webcast.
Quote:
Dubbed the Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act, HR 669 would mandate the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to approve or disapprove most non-native animal species, including birds, fish, reptiles and small mammals, for importation and trade within the United States. The government would need to access every such species, even those that have been in the United States for decades.
Link to the hearing here:
http://resources.edgeboss.net/wmedia-live/resources/36401/300_resources-nr1324_080313.asx
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