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Old 01-10-2011, 05:50 PM   #41
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Well, I hope you have a lot of success with your plantings, philip. Keep us posted.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:30 PM   #42
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I've planted directly in the soil before. I killed all the vegetation over the summer and fall before though. Then I just wintersowed a few things to plug in, probably stuff I didn't have many seeds for.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:14 AM   #43
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I've winter sown in containers, in addition to tossing out seed after the first snow fall.

I seem to have better luck with seed germination in my winter sown containers. In fact I just about fell over the first year I tried this. My germination success rate far exceeded the seeds I sprinkled directly on the ground.

If I have a lot of a particular type of seed, I will do it both ways. Sprinkle some about and winter sow it in containers.

An sometimes I winter sow in containers just because some of the seed is quite expensive, endangered or difficult to get going.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:03 AM   #44
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This is my winter sowing. My favorites are chicken boxes and lettuce boxes. I love the fact the seedlings are so strong that are winter sown and they all come up in their own time. So I am only planting a few feet a time instead of everything at once. I have a green house but still run out of room and use the winter sowing method.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:22 PM   #45
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I wish to say something about terminology due to a recent, but enlightening, run-in with some rather zealous disciples (this word actually fits) of Trudi Davidoff. Seems the term "winter sowing" is now one and the same as sowing in milk jugs, no matter when you do it. Other methods of cold stratification don't seem to fit into this definition any longer. Placing seed between damp coffee filters sealed in a baggie outdoors or in an unheated shed and sowing after germination occurs, for example.

The problem I encountered occurred in a discussion on GW. I stumbled in there and made my first post on that forum in response to another person also from Oklahoma who had 1/3 of his seeds germinating. When I attempted to point out that it is wise to wait until spring to sow seeds that only need a week or so of warmth I was given the Indoor vs Outdoor sowing defense in spades along with many testimonials.

Any clarification I attempted seemed to make no difference to these people who went on to explain..."We winter-sow these in spring" after I explained I was not speaking about indoor sowing.

When I explained that sowing in closed containers in spring was not winter sowing I was pelted with quite a number of defensive testimonials and endorsements of Trudi and her "methods". I then went on to try to explain that this would be for warm stratification, the opposite of cold stratification as I have always understood when talking about winter sowing. I now feel the need to say "sowing outdoors in winter" in the future if I want to be clear and not come off as belonging to a group of zealots, but I do know that would not be necessary here at Wildlife Gardeners.

Wildlife also enjoys talks about stratification I noticed. I brought stratification up there as well and a frekkus occurred due to my "complicating" an otherwise simple process.

"The whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought"
(Orwell)


I had informed the group I was winter sowing in pots, plastic containers and in situ. This didn't seem to matter. I was not condemning the "Trudi Method" because I wasn't really aware there was such a thing at this time. I was merely trying to explain that sowing in spring is not winter sowing. Seems that according to the "Trudi Method" it is, if you believe what you read on GW and "follow her instructions" because now it seems that "winter sowing" = sowing in milk jugs and is NEW.

I was reprimanded by e-mail for using the words "repetitious and monotonous" after receiving yet more testimonials on the forum and excusing myself for obviously being on the wrong forum. I was told if "I did not believe in her method" I must discuss it elsewhere. As I said, I had made it clear I was sowing seeds using that method but had stated, in my own defense, that she had not in fact invented it. I have been sowing seeds in winter outdoors before I ever heard of GW or owned a computer for that matter. (I no longer want to say "winter sowing")

So, we now have a contradiction and confusion of terms it seems. I am reminded of the book '1984' "He who controls the past controls the future". Since this new "Trudi Method" that she "invented" is considered and defined by so many people (and growing in popularity) as being the very essence and meaning of Winter Sowing in many circles, I find I must now use entire sentences rather than mere words to speak about something as old and commonly practiced as winter sowing.

I find this troubling.

I am thankful I can still talk about spring sowing without having to designate I am (or am not) talking about a specific "technique" that was "invented" and "copyrighted".

This is a dark day in gardening for me. I realize I haven't posted here for a while as I have been busy in the last months but I thought perhaps I might express my concerns regarding what now seems to be confusing terminology to people who will hopefully understand why I find this disturbing.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:50 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savannah View Post
I wish to say something about terminology due to a recent, but enlightening, run-in with some rather zealous disciples (this word actually fits) of Trudi Davidoff. Seems the term "winter sowing" is now one and the same as sowing in milk jugs, no matter when you do it.

...Seems that according to the "Trudi Method" it is, if you believe what you read on GW and "follow her instructions" because now it seems that "winter sowing" = sowing in milk jugs and is NEW.

I was reprimanded... I find this troubling.

I am thankful I can still talk about spring sowing without having to designate I am (or am not) talking about a specific "technique" that was "invented" and "copyrighted".

This is a dark day in gardening for me. I realize I haven't posted here for a while as I have been busy in the last months but I thought perhaps I might express my concerns regarding what now seems to be confusing terminology to people who will hopefully understand why I find this disturbing.
Yes, I can understand your frustration--I'm assuming that is an understatement for how you feel after this encounter. It is extremely difficult to deal with someone who thinks that their perception is the only right one--unfortunately I've encountered that twice recently--and they refuse to see things any other way.

Maybe Wikipedia is not the best source, but I found this:

Quote:
Winter sowing

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(February 2009)Winter sowing is a method of starting seeds outdoors in winter. This is generally done with seeds that require a period of cold stratification. The method takes advantage of natural temperatures, rather than artificially refrigerating seeds.
Winter sowing involves sowing seeds in a miniature greenhouse outside during winter, allowing them to germinate in spring. Users of this method have had success in most hardiness zones.

Also this:

Winter Sowing

Quote:
This is the usual way of sowing seeds of perennials, trees, and shrubs, in Europe and elsewhere, and simply involves sowing seeds outside in the autumn, usually in pots, to allow them to experience the ups and downs of winter temperatures to encourage them to germinate in the spring.
...But, sad to say, the first several results are for the technique those on GW espouse. However, when adding the term "stratification" to the search for "winter sowing" more results come appear for what we are all talking about.

I'm not sure you have any desire to go back and educate these people, but part of me wishes you (or someone else from here) will do so. For some reason the lyrics to "Stairway to Heaven" come to mind: " 'cause you know sometimes words have two meanings". (which actually strikes me as a little funny as many have way more than TWO--being an interpreter, one example was to look up the word "run"...I believe it has 43 entries) Anyway, I feel your frustration and don't think my response made much difference.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:01 PM   #47
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Long live the great.... the powerful.... the holder of a registered copyright.... Trudi of Long Island… the goddess who I keep reading invented all things winter sowing. Ha ha ha... she's a hoot and a half.
--
Savannah> Don't let her get you down. She's a nobody just like me. I ran into some of her crap online from searches and she’s er uh…. really different from what I remember and I picked up on a little cult of “believers” that ran around after her in threads making sure everyone minded their winter sowing Ps and Qs when interacting with her. Are you sitting down? I think you better sit down for this…. I found a site online where the woman was telling folk not to even paraphrase anything she’s authored without giving her credit. Whoa... big whoa to that. So…. I take it you winter sow, eh? Me too. I do it outside usually starting sometime in December but sometimes earlier and sometimes in January. Is that legal or are the winter sowing police gonna come pick me up and take me away? Ummmm…. I cold stratify seed a boatload of different ways in all kinds of medium at all different times of year…. mostly in refrigerators though. Am I like flirting with death calling it cold stratification instead of winter sowing in spring or winter sowing in summer>>>?
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:24 PM   #48
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Dap, you didn't quote the best bit from Winter Sowing:
Quote:
It might seem obvious, but only sowing seeds in the autumn or winter can be called 'winter sowing', and you sow seeds at this time for particular reasons. When I see references to 'winter sowing' in spring or summer on US Forums, I conclude that this new discovery by American gardeners is just the rediscovery that seeds don't need artificial light or heat to germinate.
Yes, Savannah, some "American gardeners" have not completed their gardening education. But it's a journey, and we're all at some stage along the way. Wildlife Gardeners has helped me move forward on that journey with threads like this one.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:28 PM   #49
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"..but part of me wishes you (or someone from here) will do so."

Sorry, I don't know how to post a quote.

No, you are wrong, you did make me feel better. Just reporting it somewhere made me feel better. I find it very comforting to know others have not taken over by pods.

I was, in a way, attempting to do just that because of some of the things I read there. That was what made it so disturbing. Everything a person tries to talk about winter sowing, in a manner that is not part of the dogma (for lack of a better term), or which comes from a non-Trudi source is responded to with a kind of mindless knee jerk defense of winter sowing as if they are talking about something entirely different and need to defend against scoffers.

I googled it and understood fairly quickly what seemed to be going by reading about "the technique", the discovery, the following, the easy results etc.

I personally do most of my sowing in fall because I am mostly planting seeds of native shrubs, a few trees and wild perennials. More commonly I use the phrase "fall sowing" but switch to the other one to not seem nit picking when discussing it. Most of my seed packets instruct fall sowing.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benj1 View Post
Dap, you didn't quote the best bit from Winter Sowing:

Quote:
It might seem obvious, but only sowing seeds in the autumn or winter can be called 'winter sowing', and you sow seeds at this time for particular reasons. When I see references to 'winter sowing' in spring or summer on US Forums, I conclude that this new discovery by American gardeners is just the rediscovery that seeds don't need artificial light or heat to germinate.
Well, I'm glad you did. You caught me, I didn't read the whole thing!

(Actually, I thught you were going to tell me I got the lyrics wrong!)
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