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Old 10-15-2010, 08:18 PM   #131
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The plant on the left was PL and.... the plant in the foreground was Epilobium angustifolium but now it's Chamerion angustifolium, PLANTS Profile for Chamerion angustifolium ssp. angustifolium (fireweed) | USDA PLANTS. Check out the documented distribution of that before fireweed started taking off like.... fireweed. There's a reason why they call it bombweed over in Europe. Never fear hava..... we ripped out the right plants!!! There was a sedge meadow back behind all the PL and FW growing in those ditches and if you can slow it down.... you done good!!! The PL sets a motherload of seed and the FW just kinda expands out from runners and seed. We got the PL before it went to seed and most of the FW but.... that FW's gonna pull an Arnold.... "I'll be back" kinda deal. There's been some work done at a genetic level on this fireweed. It's getting all kinda messy but.... it's way out of its natural range and it's going to take some time before all of it comes together. The southern states are starting to list it as invasive.... it's gone way beyond being "aggressive" down there and from Cirsium's map.... it's naturalized in most of WI. We've been ripping it out down here for a coupla years because it's wiping out locally native species. This wunnerful wunnerful spread we're seeing on FW is compliments of..... the hort industry marketing it to bee keepers as Purple Rocket and to herbalists as Willowherb and to the permaculturists for its edible shoots. Why we even imported some of it from Russia.... as Persian Willowherb to appeal to everyone into having "exotics".... as if we didn't already have enough of our own. Supposedly.... FW treats everything from high temps to tumors and prostate enlargement. With as much of it out there as we've got.... nobody should have a fever.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:44 PM   #132
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That chart says it's a native in the lower 48 states. So Dapjwy was right. It IS a native.
But it's considered a BAD native because of its overpowering ability... Am I thinking correctly?
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:16 AM   #133
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dapjwy is definitely right that the plant is native to North America but…. it’s not native to all of North America and one of the biggest problems with the USDA’s maps is they never tell us where a species occurred before we humans started moving it around here there and everywhere, “Remember that only native and naturalized populations are mapped!”, Michigan County Level Distribution for Chamerion angustifolium (fireweed) | USDA PLANTS. There’s a big difference between a native and a naturalized plant but the maps ALWAYS lump both native and naturalized populations together as documented “occurrences”. This plant's "indigenous" to Alaska and much of Canada so there's why it's listed as "N" not "I" but it's a North American plant that's spreading throughout the lower 48. The Feds give us a definition of a native plant, Widely accepted definition of native plant & sustainability. This definition is more user friendly, “Native plants should be defined as those that have evolved and adapted to a specific location and have remained genetically unaltered by humans”, Home. Here’s a rock solid discussion on native v. naturalized with definitions, Discussion of definitions used by Wildlife Gardeners. That’s a problem when you’ve got folk like whoever this bullthistle is telling everyone FW's “native” range runs from USDA zone 2-9 teaching the world how to propagate it so we can provide “nectar” to butterflies and bees with nothing more than this as a warning there’s some problems with Fireweed, “It is classified as a weed so be careful of its parameters in a garden setting which requires light shade.”, propagating perennials: Chamerion angustifolium-Fireweed. This guy’s whole blog is how to propagate perennials and I couldn’t find one mention of “naturalized” plants being introduced by humans or “escaping” cultivation….. the word’s being used interchangeably with native. Then the internet is loaded with ding dongs like the author of this article, How to Create a Naturalized Flower Garden | eHow.com, “The term "naturalized" in gardening means letting Mother Nature do her thing. If you'd like to create a naturalized flower garden, you'll need to find plants and flowers that grow naturally and forever. You won't need to do a lot of back breaking upkeep and your garden will become a source of envy for your neighbors who also have better things to do than tend to flashy, formal gardens.” Oh yay…. everybody plant fireweed in zones 2-9 so we can have a “naturalized” garden and then our plants can breed and “naturalize” in other people’s gardens and natural areas. Just kidding but…. that’s what’s been happening and FW has been spread so far and so wide that no matter how many $$$ are tossed at research to determine the “natural” or “indigenous” range…. the best anyone will probably ever be able to come up with is that it was “indigenous” to AK and most of Canada before the plant was “translocated” by humans and turned into an aggressive North American “native” botanical bully some states are calling a “weed” that other states are calling “invasive”. FW is both native and non-native to North America depending on where it occurs and I don’t think we’ll ever have the $$$ to pin down its range prior to European colonization. Here’s some good info, APWG: Background Information.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:37 AM   #134
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WOW! Guess we know the facts now, links inclusive...What a write up!
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:00 PM   #135
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Hey NORMAN! I found us a chair for Sage to use when she comes to join us in next years adventure!
Porky Pine Mountain adventures-redneck-2-copy.jpg
We won't have to push her around after all!

(Photo sent via E-mail)
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:42 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havalotta View Post
Hey NORMAN! I found us a chair for Sage to use when she comes to join us in next years adventure!
Attachment 20946
We won't have to push her around after all!

(Photo sent via E-mail)
LOL! Thanks for the laugh.

First thoughts after I stopped laughing: The Sage-inator OR Robo-sage!
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:07 PM   #137
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Little something I found...https://www.outdoorphotographer.com/...of-the-clouds/
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