soil problems - Wildlife Gardeners

milkweed · 07-04-2009, 03:27 PM

I have clay soil, the top soil was scraped off when the house was built.

I've been try to get a good size tree established in the yard but 3 have died. The first was a eastern redbud, when it die the nursery replaced it with another redbud. When it died, I had the nursery replace it with a Serviceberry. The nursery said they where having problems with their redbuds. It was 2007, a drought year for us.
Last year the Serviceberry flowered but then started to die back. I called a tree specialist, he worked on the tree, gave it an antifugal and told us to stack it. We did.
Now the tree has died completely back to the roots and only small suckers survive.
Then I noticed that the shrubs growing in that area when not doing as well a the same shrubs a yard away. I got out my shove and dug around the area, its raw clay. It looks like the kind you find when you're digging a basement.
I talked to a friend of mine who's an arborist and he suggested removing everything and making a berm with good soil.

I'd like a second opinion. What would you do?

milkweed · 07-04-2009, 03:42 PM

See the size and the color differences.

Calliandra · 07-04-2009, 03:45 PM

We have solid clay too, underlying a thin crust of more usable soil. Last year we bought a truckload of compost, built some rock raised beds and filled them, then spread the rest over the lawn. Things will grow in clay but extra organic material to lighten the soil will help, and over time earthworms should mix the compost into the clay. .

How's your drainage? We're on a hilltop so drainage isn't so much of a problem, but one of my satellite growing sites has boggy clay soil, and I'm having trouble growing anything in that spot.

Ah, now I see your photos. Is the whole planting bed underlain by clay, or just one spot?

milkweed · 07-04-2009, 03:49 PM

The drainage seems fine. I've never seen standing water in that area even during our spring downpours.

Calliandra · 07-04-2009, 04:12 PM

If you are averse to raised beds and your drainage is good, you could keep everything at ground level if you lighten the soil in the beds (dig out as deep as you can, and mix existing soil with compost). Be a lot of work and you'd end up with a pile of extra clay though.

We need a list of clay-adapted plants! What grows naturally in clay?

erictjohnson · 07-04-2009, 09:09 PM

We have high-clay soil here in Madison, Wisconsin, also. It might not be quite as heavy as the soil you are working with, though. I have been adding compost to our garden plot for 10 years now, digging it in every spring, to a depth of 10 inches or so. That patch of soil is now very easy to work, and we can grow pretty much anything successfully in the garden. I put all of our yard and garden residuals on the compost pile, except for brush that is more than 3/4 inch diameter. Every fall, I rake up the leaves from our maple tree, and shred them with the mulching mower. This material goes on the compost pile, as well. I find that it takes a lot of compost to successfully amend clay soil, but the results are worth it.

Prairiefreak · 07-04-2009, 09:26 PM

I think prairie nursery sells native plants they call "clay busters." Their catalog is online.

Porterbrook · 07-05-2009, 05:53 AM

You have some excellent suggestions given to you. I would also urge you to dig out the area where the plants seem to be stressed. Many times the roots cannot penetrate deep into the subsoil and just sit there. Without nourishment and in some cases too much water (because it cannot percolate through the clay), the plants will begin to yellow and/or die. After digging the hole at least two or three feet deep, I also use a spud or the edge of a straight-edged shovel and create crevices in the bottom of the cavity. This allows the roots to grow deeper into the subsoil and also helps water to percolate out. I would also suggest that you amend the soil that is removed from the hole with good compost. Simply filling the hole with compost or good soil allows the roots to grow quickly, but then they reach the clay on the perimeter and develop much slower. Amending the clay with topsoil makes the roots adapt better to the growing conditions. Also, mulch around your trees and shrubs with shredded leaves and compost. This will keep the soil from drying out and also add nutrients to the plants as the organic matter leaches into the new soil. Good luck.

Calliandra · 07-05-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porterbrook

Many times the roots cannot penetrate deep into the subsoil and just sit there. Without nourishment and in some cases too much water (because it cannot percolate through the clay), the plants will begin to yellow and/or die.

Right. It's as if someone had buried a pot in the ground. A pot without drainage holes.

Calliandra · 07-05-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairiefreak

I think prairie nursery sells native plants they call "clay busters." Their catalog is online.

Not sure if the page links will transfer, but here they are:

Wildlife Prairie for Medium Soils [50007] - $55.00 : Prairie Nursery, Native Plants & Seeds, Prairies, Woodlands & Wetlands

http://www.prairienursery.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_seed_mix_info&cPath=13 _16&products_id=23

http://www.prairienursery.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_seed_mix_info&cPath=13 &products_id=401

07-04-2009, 03:27 PM	#1
milkweed Heron Join Date: May 2009 Location: Indiana	soil problems I have clay soil, the top soil was scraped off when the house was built. I've been try to get a good size tree established in the yard but 3 have died. The first was a eastern redbud, when it die the nursery replaced it with another redbud. When it died, I had the nursery replace it with a Serviceberry. The nursery said they where having problems with their redbuds. It was 2007, a drought year for us. Last year the Serviceberry flowered but then started to die back. I called a tree specialist, he worked on the tree, gave it an antifugal and told us to stack it. We did. Now the tree has died completely back to the roots and only small suckers survive. Then I noticed that the shrubs growing in that area when not doing as well a the same shrubs a yard away. I got out my shove and dug around the area, its raw clay. It looks like the kind you find when you're digging a basement. I talked to a friend of mine who's an arborist and he suggested removing everything and making a berm with good soil. I'd like a second opinion. What would you do? __________________ We do not inherit the land from our fathers, we borrow it from our children.

07-04-2009, 03:42 PM	#2
milkweed Heron Join Date: May 2009 Location: Indiana	See the size and the color differences. Attached Thumbnails __________________ We do not inherit the land from our fathers, we borrow it from our children.

07-04-2009, 03:49 PM	#4
milkweed Heron Join Date: May 2009 Location: Indiana	The drainage seems fine. I've never seen standing water in that area even during our spring downpours. __________________ We do not inherit the land from our fathers, we borrow it from our children.

07-04-2009, 09:26 PM	#7
Prairiefreak Heron Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NE IL, USA	I think prairie nursery sells native plants they call "clay busters." Their catalog is online. __________________ "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.....and spiders." Me and Franky D.

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07-04-2009, 03:45 PM	#3
Calliandra WG Librarian Join Date: Jun 2009	We have solid clay too, underlying a thin crust of more usable soil. Last year we bought a truckload of compost, built some rock raised beds and filled them, then spread the rest over the lawn. Things will grow in clay but extra organic material to lighten the soil will help, and over time earthworms should mix the compost into the clay. . How's your drainage? We're on a hilltop so drainage isn't so much of a problem, but one of my satellite growing sites has boggy clay soil, and I'm having trouble growing anything in that spot. Ah, now I see your photos. Is the whole planting bed underlain by clay, or just one spot?

07-04-2009, 04:12 PM	#5
Calliandra WG Librarian Join Date: Jun 2009	If you are averse to raised beds and your drainage is good, you could keep everything at ground level if you lighten the soil in the beds (dig out as deep as you can, and mix existing soil with compost). Be a lot of work and you'd end up with a pile of extra clay though. We need a list of clay-adapted plants! What grows naturally in clay?

07-04-2009, 09:09 PM	#6
erictjohnson Grub Join Date: Jan 2009	We have high-clay soil here in Madison, Wisconsin, also. It might not be quite as heavy as the soil you are working with, though. I have been adding compost to our garden plot for 10 years now, digging it in every spring, to a depth of 10 inches or so. That patch of soil is now very easy to work, and we can grow pretty much anything successfully in the garden. I put all of our yard and garden residuals on the compost pile, except for brush that is more than 3/4 inch diameter. Every fall, I rake up the leaves from our maple tree, and shred them with the mulching mower. This material goes on the compost pile, as well. I find that it takes a lot of compost to successfully amend clay soil, but the results are worth it.

07-05-2009, 05:53 AM	#8
Porterbrook Salamander Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Racine, Ohio along the Ohio River	You have some excellent suggestions given to you. I would also urge you to dig out the area where the plants seem to be stressed. Many times the roots cannot penetrate deep into the subsoil and just sit there. Without nourishment and in some cases too much water (because it cannot percolate through the clay), the plants will begin to yellow and/or die. After digging the hole at least two or three feet deep, I also use a spud or the edge of a straight-edged shovel and create crevices in the bottom of the cavity. This allows the roots to grow deeper into the subsoil and also helps water to percolate out. I would also suggest that you amend the soil that is removed from the hole with good compost. Simply filling the hole with compost or good soil allows the roots to grow quickly, but then they reach the clay on the perimeter and develop much slower. Amending the clay with topsoil makes the roots adapt better to the growing conditions. Also, mulch around your trees and shrubs with shredded leaves and compost. This will keep the soil from drying out and also add nutrients to the plants as the organic matter leaches into the new soil. Good luck.