Makes me so mad! - Page 2 - Wildlife Gardeners

lonediver · 02-15-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Sounds like a bunch of grumps to me! There is lots of good land in this country outside the city limits. Or, run for city council and stir things up.

Me either. Too old. Too tired.

Hazelnut ,

Have you ever used google earth , if you know how to use it , I will send you my address and show you how far out in the boonies I presently am . But I am still worried about the d _ _ _ developers catching up with me in 5 to 10 years and the cities in thier desire to increase thier tax base and thier wild annexation sprees .

hazelnut · 02-15-2009, 07:45 PM

And the Arizona boonies are r e a l l y boonies. Ive done some exploring out there in the desert. Not like rural Alabama where town is only 40 miles away.

Alabama is threatening a highway NS down the west side of Alabama. If that happens I may ask for your address!

lonediver · 02-15-2009, 07:58 PM

I live out on the fringes where there is commercial agriculture , about as far out as one can go presently and still get available power . One to two miles away there ain't nuthin . Which is where I would likely prefer to live (being something of an anti-social) even so of the 5 lots of approx 4 acres each that toucn on mine only one is occupied . The 160 acres across the street from me has nothing on it , so it is relatively peaceful . The actual land that mine and all the other 4 acre parcels is on is reclaimed farmland so when I moved in there was little to nothing on it .

So I had a blank canvas and started from scratch quite literally .

Leslie · 02-15-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLorax

I'm titling the first photo, "Ferry Morse destroy what habitat we have left mix" The second photo I am titling, "Label to Ferry Morse destroy what habitat we have left mix".

With what I'm learning about the importance of natives, I agree with you.

But for some, this bag/packet/box of wildflower seeds is their first foray into wildlife gardening. A toe in the door. They need something quick to flower, attractive, likely to succeed. In that respect, I think it's good. They need to spend a season admiring butterflies & hummingbirds. Getting hooked. Hopefully from there they'll do some research ... learn about natives, about conservation. Maybe they'll learn about butterfly host plants, opening a door to natives. Hopefully.

Could Ferry Morse do as well with natives? I ask this honestly, so please don't be annoyed with me - I don't know native wildflowers very well. I'm coming to see non-natives as wasted space. But so far, I've found natives hard to obtain, often expensive, and not necessarily fast or easy to grow. So many are perennials, and require stratification. Would they be suitable for a beginner's mix?

Also, just what is meant by "native"? Native to California may not be native to Louisiana. And "introduced" isn't necessarily "invasive".

They're not all natives, which we need. They do provide nectar sources, but they don't provide host plants for butterflies or many native insects. But how really bad are they?

BooBooBearBecky · 02-16-2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLorax

I was shopping early this morning. I had my camera in my purse. They think I'm nuts but I don't care.

I'm titling the first photo, "Ferry Morse destroy what habitat we have left mix" The second photo I am titling, "Label to Ferry Morse destroy what habitat we have left mix".

I have a photo of their bag from last year. Catch the new design so it's easier to dump all over our land?

Lorax,
If it were up to you to decide which seeds to include in a butterfly garden mix bag, which seeds would you use and why?

This is a very legitimate question, as I am one of those consumers who would not recognize that some of the seeds included in this mix are invasive. I am learning now, thanks to the Wildlife Gardeners Forum and especially the Invasives Forum.

I'm also very interested in learning about which "ingredients" you would remove from the specific bag that you posted. It would make a good starting point for me to become more aware of my buying choices.

Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise Lorax.
BooBooBearBecky

suunto · 02-16-2009, 06:39 AM

Twenty-odd years ago, I lived in a 'planned community' where I quickly became aware of the foibles of the local HOA. I got myself appointed to it, hoping to inject a little common sense into their proceedings. It was like the old joke of trying to teach a pig to sing; it doesn't work, and only annoys the pig. I eventually quit out of frustration, and moved not long thereafter. Some of those people would give morons a bad name...

transplant · 02-16-2009, 08:33 AM

I'm fairly new to serious gardening, especially to gardening with an emphasis on natives and planting for wildlife. Many years ago, at another property, I was totally a neophyte and unaware of the importance of planting natives. As a wildlife lover, I purchased and scattered a package of the "butterfly mix" similar to the one pictured here. What a bloody nightmare! Some of the plants included were native, but the overall result was a disaster. Knowing next to nothing, and having no idea what the potential was for the plants that sprouted, my bed was rapidly dominated and overcome by monarda and campsis. Both drew butterflies, yes, but also crowded out all other plants. The trumpet vine crept, or more precisely leapt, under the front porch of the house, strangled nearly every other plant except the monarda; and once we decided it was a bad thing in that locale, it proved impossible to eradicate because the area under the porch could not be accessed. The monarda drew hoardes of bees, which can be a lovely thing, but not in a bed right outside your front door where they make it impossible for one to sit on the porch and relax in peace. As a complete novice, the "lesson" I learned is that planting for wildlife can be a disaster unless you have the time (which I did not back then) to fight a constant battle of maintenance and control. Thankfully, over the years, I have learned better; but mixes like these are a disaster for the novice who honestly but ignorantly wants to help wildlife with their garden. I'm sure I'm not the only novice was "turned off" to gardening for wildlife by mixes like this. I see no way a manufacturer can produce a "butterly mix" for all zones/areas/microclimates in this country that will both attract wildlife and avoid being a disaster for the novice. Fortunately my life has changed, and I've been able to learn more about gardening in general, and emphasizing native and wildlife-friendly plants in particular; but how many others like me have remained convinced that gardening for wildlife produces an unruly, butt-ugly bed that one can neither control in a reasonable amount of time, or sit near and enjoy?

TheLorax · 02-16-2009, 09:53 AM

Leslie and BooBooBearBecky- I came back to this thread to post more photos from another shopping spree yesterday. I did not expect to find such sincere and heartfelt questions.

Leslie- I can answer your questions based on my knowledge and experience easily.

BooBooBearBecky- your questions are going to take a little bit longer because of some reasons mentioned by transplant. BooBooBearBecky- what county are you in? I need some time to do a little bit of research and there is another thread I want to post a response to before I come back to this one. Would it be ok if I got back to the two of you some time later in the week?

lonediver · 02-16-2009, 10:00 AM

As I see it , it is one of the foibles of mass marketing . The home depots and such want to award contracts to large growers, producers who can handle thier needs . In order for them to offer cheap/reasonable cost plants they have to . Thier management does not have the time to go out to check quality control etc . of small local growers . We as consumers will wind up getting what wse are willing to pay for . The small local growers are being squeezed , they try to sell competitively but they have not the resources of burpee or ferry morse .

YA get what you're willing to pay for folks . As well as doing the homework to become a knowledgable consumer .

BooBooBearBecky · 02-16-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLorax

BooBooBearBecky- your questions are going to take a little bit longer because of some reasons mentioned by transplant. BooBooBearBecky- what county are you in? I need some time to do a little bit of research and there is another thread I want to post a response to before I come back to this one. Would it be ok if I got back to the two of you some time later in the week?

Lorax,
Of course take your time. No rush. I'm just learning more about native plants, and I'm certainly getting a good education about invasives here. Which leaves me wondering...OK what native plants are "good?" I'm in zone 3/4, a few hours away from the Canadian border in Northern WI.

BooBooBearBecky

02-16-2009, 06:39 AM	#16
suunto The Bug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Monroe County, WV, USA	Twenty-odd years ago, I lived in a 'planned community' where I quickly became aware of the foibles of the local HOA. I got myself appointed to it, hoping to inject a little common sense into their proceedings. It was like the old joke of trying to teach a pig to sing; it doesn't work, and only annoys the pig. I eventually quit out of frustration, and moved not long thereafter. Some of those people would give morons a bad name... __________________ “Every artist dips his brush in his own soul and paints his own nature into his pictures.” Henry Ward Beecher

02-16-2009, 09:53 AM	#18
TheLorax Unicellular Fungi Join Date: Nov 2008	Leslie and BooBooBearBecky- I came back to this thread to post more photos from another shopping spree yesterday. I did not expect to find such sincere and heartfelt questions. Leslie- I can answer your questions based on my knowledge and experience easily. BooBooBearBecky- your questions are going to take a little bit longer because of some reasons mentioned by transplant. BooBooBearBecky- what county are you in? I need some time to do a little bit of research and there is another thread I want to post a response to before I come back to this one. Would it be ok if I got back to the two of you some time later in the week? __________________ "In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; we will understand only what we have been taught." -Baba Dioum, Senegalese ecologist Last edited by Fearless Weeder; 12-01-2009 at 12:36 PM.

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02-15-2009, 07:45 PM	#12
hazelnut WG Writer Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, Alabama USA	And the Arizona boonies are r e a l l y boonies. Ive done some exploring out there in the desert. Not like rural Alabama where town is only 40 miles away. Alabama is threatening a highway NS down the west side of Alabama. If that happens I may ask for your address!

02-15-2009, 07:58 PM	#13
lonediver Heron Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Maricopa , Arizona , U.S.A.	I live out on the fringes where there is commercial agriculture , about as far out as one can go presently and still get available power . One to two miles away there ain't nuthin . Which is where I would likely prefer to live (being something of an anti-social) even so of the 5 lots of approx 4 acres each that toucn on mine only one is occupied . The 160 acres across the street from me has nothing on it , so it is relatively peaceful . The actual land that mine and all the other 4 acre parcels is on is reclaimed farmland so when I moved in there was little to nothing on it . So I had a blank canvas and started from scratch quite literally .

02-16-2009, 08:33 AM	#17
transplant Carbon Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hendersonville, NC, USA	I'm fairly new to serious gardening, especially to gardening with an emphasis on natives and planting for wildlife. Many years ago, at another property, I was totally a neophyte and unaware of the importance of planting natives. As a wildlife lover, I purchased and scattered a package of the "butterfly mix" similar to the one pictured here. What a bloody nightmare! Some of the plants included were native, but the overall result was a disaster. Knowing next to nothing, and having no idea what the potential was for the plants that sprouted, my bed was rapidly dominated and overcome by monarda and campsis. Both drew butterflies, yes, but also crowded out all other plants. The trumpet vine crept, or more precisely leapt, under the front porch of the house, strangled nearly every other plant except the monarda; and once we decided it was a bad thing in that locale, it proved impossible to eradicate because the area under the porch could not be accessed. The monarda drew hoardes of bees, which can be a lovely thing, but not in a bed right outside your front door where they make it impossible for one to sit on the porch and relax in peace. As a complete novice, the "lesson" I learned is that planting for wildlife can be a disaster unless you have the time (which I did not back then) to fight a constant battle of maintenance and control. Thankfully, over the years, I have learned better; but mixes like these are a disaster for the novice who honestly but ignorantly wants to help wildlife with their garden. I'm sure I'm not the only novice was "turned off" to gardening for wildlife by mixes like this. I see no way a manufacturer can produce a "butterly mix" for all zones/areas/microclimates in this country that will both attract wildlife and avoid being a disaster for the novice. Fortunately my life has changed, and I've been able to learn more about gardening in general, and emphasizing native and wildlife-friendly plants in particular; but how many others like me have remained convinced that gardening for wildlife produces an unruly, butt-ugly bed that one can neither control in a reasonable amount of time, or sit near and enjoy?

02-16-2009, 10:00 AM	#19
lonediver Heron Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Maricopa , Arizona , U.S.A.	As I see it , it is one of the foibles of mass marketing . The home depots and such want to award contracts to large growers, producers who can handle thier needs . In order for them to offer cheap/reasonable cost plants they have to . Thier management does not have the time to go out to check quality control etc . of small local growers . We as consumers will wind up getting what wse are willing to pay for . The small local growers are being squeezed , they try to sell competitively but they have not the resources of burpee or ferry morse . YA get what you're willing to pay for folks . As well as doing the homework to become a knowledgable consumer .