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Old 02-05-2015, 03:50 PM   #11
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That's very sad to hear KC. Are you in the group? Would you share with me the names of those who are making money off selling indiscriminately? I'm sure that is not what Holli wants in the group and she is working so hard to build honest interest in Monarchs.

What do you think about making Monarchs an endangered species? Do you fear if that happens, everybody trying to help will become criminals?

Personally, I hate to see the roadside milkweed. It usually will get sprayed, mowed, destroyed, along with the eggs and cats. There are places we frequent that I check for eggs, instars and cats, because next time I come back, it will be laying on the ground.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:39 AM   #12
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Holli first tried to raise monarchs in 2012 but they all died (tachinid flies). I tried to help her out with moths in 2013 because she wanted to learn and she was local. She passed because she thought it was beyond her capabilities. Then she started posting fantastic monarch macro photographs. Suddenly she was a monarch expert. She is still very much a newbie but I think she has gotten a little drunk on peopleís perception of her as an expert so she feeds the perception. An example would be yesterdayís post on how monarchs taste things. The whole thing was a copy/paste job from a Monarch Watch web page but she did not post a link or mention Monarch Watch.

Holli knows exactly who is selling stuff. When someone posted yesterday about starting a butterfly business, she sent that person right to the sellers. Holliís monarch mentors are the people in the monarch industry who have a Facebook presence.

Iím a member of zero monarch Facebook groups because I would get nothing else done. I would see the bad info theyíre posting and I would waste my time trying to correct it. It is a waste of my time because I did not start a monarch Facebook page five years ago to buildup Facebook street cred plus people want to believe they are helping so anyone saying otherwise is not someone they want to believe. It is much easier to believe the people who tell you what you want to believe. On top of that, Iíll spend a boatload of time putting together an answer with facts and links to the research to back up the facts but what I get is a one or two sentence response 2 minutes later, normally on a different tangent, that proves I wasted my time. All that said, I know the groups exist and I look at them from time to time. If they are public, I may even post. The Beautiful Monarch is not public. I do have an entomology buddy who is a member and he wastes his time there once in a while.

About monarchs being declared an endangered species, that is a joke. They will be here long after our great-great-grandchildren are dead. Only thing possibly endangered is the midwest migration in its present state (history shows the current migration pattern started around the Civil War). My guess is the people who filed for the endangered designation are actually going after the monarch industry. And the monarch industry folks are the ones fighting this the most. Youíll see Edith Smith get quoted a lot.

As for people becoming criminals, most of us already are. The Feds have a zillion rules that we donít know exist. It is easy to find news stories about people who are in huge trouble because they unknowingly broke these rules. The story that always sticks out in my mind is from 2011. Because a family sold more than $500 worth of rabbits in a year, they had to meet some federal rules they knew nothing about. The family was in the news because they were looking at a $4 million fine. Anyway, because butterfly caterpillars eat plants, butterflies are subject to a bunch of USDA rules. The USPS also has a bunch of rules governing how insects are shipped. The rules of both agencies are broken all the time without repercussions but there is always the chance some Fed could pop up on your doorstep and ruin your life. And if you do try to follow the rules, now youíre on the Fedsí radar and it is more likely you will find them on your doorstep.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:12 PM   #13
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Thanks for the info, KC. I'll take off my rose-colored glasses now and watch the info I thought I was learning from a bit more critically. Which is good. I never did think of her as an expert though, rather just someone who just got attracted to the Monarchs and wanted to post about it. She seems to be learning and posting, sharing stuff, etc. I don't know enough about it at all as I just got motivated towards the end of the season.

I got furious with the local Wildlife Refuge for mowing down a very large section of milkweed just when it was starting to bud. I couldn't believe they were so stupid when Monarchs were in serious decline. Their answer to me was, they had to "keep to the schedule" for cutting! Seriously!

Iroquois NWR mowing down milkweed despite federal decrees not to
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4375584&type=1

So KC, I live in a condo so I can't do much, but I can watch for roadside milkweed
and try to save some from likely doom up on my balcony. A wicker bookcase on the balcony worked well for this "hurry up" venture.

Monarchs on Climbing Milkweed-p1260647-version-2.jpg Cat munching milkweed

Monarchs on Climbing Milkweed-p1260606-version-2.jpg Cat in J-form

Monarchs on Climbing Milkweed-p1260824-version-2.jpg early chrysalis

Monarchs on Climbing Milkweed-p1260954-version-2.jpg late chrysalis

Monarchs on Climbing Milkweed-p1260910-version-2.jpg Monarch next to empty chrysalis

If you have a better place for me to get info and share experiences next spring,
let me know.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:33 PM   #14
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There is a state park by me that mows down their field of milkweed twice a summer. Because of pressure, they modified the mowing last year and marked off a few small areas that were not to be touched.

Living in a condo should not stop you. I raised monarchs when I lived in apartments and townhouses. I raised one in my cube at work. You just need to find where milkweed grows in your area and look at it for eggs and cats. After you get some eggs and/or cats, you stock up on milkweed leaves and keep the leaves in Ziploc bags in the fridge.

Changing gears back to Facebook: It is pretty much a waste of time having a serious discussion on Facebook because of the format. Facebook is about today. For a discussion that stretches multiple days, no one sees it except the people directly involved.

People who I consider more knowledgeable than me don't spend their time on Facebook unless it is their own Facebook page. I get to rub elbows with some of the top people. The only one I've seen post anything is retired and he only posts if certain people direct a question at him.

Places like Wildlife Gardeners are much better than Facebook for these discussions but Facebook is the hot ticket right now, unfortunately.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:29 AM   #15
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Places like Wildlife Gardeners are much better than Facebook for these discussions but Facebook is the hot ticket right now, unfortunately.
Amen to that, KC! I love this board and am SO glad I found it! I check in and read every day - even though I don't always post or comment.

I am trying to carefully select plants that are native to MI and beneficial to pollinators and I've learned a lot here already. I've decided to try starting some things from seed this year. I just can't afford to buy plants for my entire yard! My seeds are mostly from Prairie Moon so they are not "local", but they are plants native to MI.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:52 AM   #16
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I am fortunate to have met someone near me who has a secret wildlife gardening group on facebook. They are a great group and I am very happy to have met them. However i agree that you have to watch what is posted on facebook.

Sage did a great job of raising monarchs on her balcony last year. I really enjoyed reading your posts about that Sage. They always say that gardening can be done no matter what size area you have to work with.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:03 PM   #17
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Being WG's Official Non-gardener, I do have other main interests such as birding and photography, and we are DEC volunteers for Peregrine Falcons, so I created https://www.facebook.com/PeregrinePlaceWNY to allow for more interaction than my previous blog could have. Also have my own page of course.

WG is the very best site to learn and share everything about gardening and what first attracted me to it was the word Wildlife in its name!

Birds nesting on my balcony interfered with gardening the last few years and then Roger is in his late seventies now and I didn't want him carrying all that gardening stuff and soil up and down the stairs. Also no Xmas decorating for the same reason.

Doing some level of raising Monarchs should be doable this year but it won't be anything too crazy!
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:03 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Being WG's Official Non-gardener, I do have other main interests such as birding and photography, and we are DEC volunteers for Peregrine Falcons, so I created https://www.facebook.com/PeregrinePlaceWNY to allow for more interaction than my previous blog could have. Also have my own page of course.

WG is the very best site to learn and share everything about gardening and what first attracted me to it was the word Wildlife in its name!

Birds nesting on my balcony interfered with gardening the last few years and then Roger is in his late seventies now and I didn't want him carrying all that gardening stuff and soil up and down the stairs. Also no Xmas decorating for the same reason.

Doing some level of raising Monarchs should be doable this year but it won't be anything too crazy!
We have nesting Peregrines in downtown GR as well. When I worked downtown, I'd bring my binocs and scope with me to watch them. I just "Liked" your facebook page .
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Old 02-08-2015, 01:23 PM   #19
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I am fortunate to have met someone near me who has a secret wildlife gardening group on facebook. .
I had no idea that "secret" groups existed on Facebook until this year when I got invited to one. It is for people in my Girl Scout council that are cookie booth coordinators. I added Girl Scout Cookie Booth Coordinator to my resume in January.

Another thing I don't like about Facebook is how a friend can put you in a group without your permission. I have been put in three Lepidoptera groups that I then withdrew from. I'd much rather have the conversation about "Why are you not joining?" versus the conversation I was forced into, "Why did you leave?" The second conversation is more apt to cause hard feelings.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:35 PM   #20
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Gee, I never experienced anyone putting me in groups. I've been on FB for years, through all kinds of changes and now they have groups for everything. WG had a page for a while but it was too early. There were not many special interest pages or groups then. I bet now it would work.
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