House Wrens as Chickadee Predator?

[dapjwy]

Originally Posted by jack

...I'm thinking that next year I'll take down all of the nest boxes for a year and then see if the wren doesn't find an alternative site to wreak their havoc and malicious destruction.

Sorry you (and the birds) have to lose a whole year...but hopefully it will work and be worth it.

Originally Posted by jack

Was it a Carolina Wren that did the damage with you? These villains are house wrens.

No, from all that I've read, Carolina wrens don't cause those problems.

I had house wrens, that some how disappeared--never causing me (or the bluebirds) any problems...just a little worry about having attracted them and ruining my chances for more bluebirds.

I'm assuming a predator got them or something--I can't imagine that they'd lay eggs and abandon them. I've heard that they build dummy nests to fill in all of the potential nesting sites--but I've never heard of laying eggs in them. Anyway, they never returned--and hopefully they will not again. Tineckbone used to say that he didn't want to favor one native creature over another... I'm trying to view the house wren's behavior as part of nature--a lot of behaviors in nature bother me--but I'd still rather avoid having them return.

[jack]

Originally Posted by dapjwy

Sorry you (and the birds) have to lose a whole year...but hopefully it will work and be worth it.



No, from all that I've read, Carolina wrens don't cause those problems.

I had house wrens, that some how disappeared--never causing me (or the bluebirds) any problems...just a little worry about having attracted them and ruining my chances for more bluebirds.

I'm assuming a predator got them or something--I can't imagine that they'd lay eggs and abandon them. I've heard that they build dummy nests to fill in all of the potential nesting sites--but I've never heard of laying eggs in them. Anyway, they never returned--and hopefully they will not again. Tineckbone used to say that he didn't want to favor one native creature over another... I'm trying to view the house wren's behavior as part of nature--a lot of behaviors in nature bother me--but I'd still rather avoid having them return.

I've come very close to destroying their nest, but haven't. Yes, they have filled all the other boxes with sticks, and if there happens to be nesting going on in a box they get to - watch out!

I think it's time for a Cooper or Sharp-shinned hawk to make a visit here for a small meal...

I had a Carolina wren coming to my feeders over the winter, but then he went his way.

I even find the house wren's song annoying now.

[dapjwy]

Originally Posted by jack

I've come very close to destroying their nest, but haven't. Yes, they have filled all the other boxes with sticks, and if there happens to be nesting going on in a box they get to - watch out!

I think it's time for a Cooper or Sharp-shinned hawk to make a visit here for a small meal...

I had a Carolina wren coming to my feeders over the winter, but then he went his way.

I even find the house wren's song annoying now.

It was my understanding that one could remove a nest--but not a nest with eggs in it...this does not apply to non-native birds such as house sparrows.

I had a Carolina wren sporadically come to my feeder this year. I love them. I also love their song; I remember my sister putting up a bluebird house on the 3/4 acre we grew up on...all it attracted was the Carolina wren; we didn't have the right habitat for bluebirds. They have a very cheerful song.

I'm not even sure what the house wren's song sounds like...and, being that I don't want to deal with attacks on other nestlings, I hope I don't find out.

[dapjwy]

Originally Posted by Gloria

Sad as you may be about this please remember that it is not malicious behavior but the wrens own survival instincts at work.

Gloria,

Thank you for stating that so succinctly--not my strong point. ~smirk~

I hate to kill anything, so it is hard (was harder when I was little) to accept that part of nature, but that is nature. I tried to explain that earlier. However, I may do my best not to attract this species to our property, so I don't have to witness the behavior.

Originally Posted by jack

Geeze, Gloria, I find it hard to accept that explanation when the victims were Chickadees. Now how could they do damage to a wren? Also, the wrens had a successful nesting going on 600 feet from the kill site. I've watched chickadees my whole life as they became my favorites from the first. I've never seen them act aggressively to another species - not once!

Yes, I took the killing of those chicks personally... Can't help myself...

jack,

I understand how you feel...at the same time I'm trying to think of it this way: I can't blame a spider for eating a butterfly instead of a housefly. What about the bluebirds that feed their young all sorts of insects (some of which we assign a negative/gross factor to as well as those that we think of as pretty).

I'm not saying that I have an answer. I too feel strongly for anything that is suffering. It is a horrible end to a wonderful experience you were witnessing.

Originally Posted by Sage

One more bird for us to get mad at................

You've really made me think... I'm not sure I can say that I'm "mad at" house sparrows and European starlings for out competing the native bluebird--and the attacks that house sparrows make, killing the young or even the adult birds. However, I am mad at those who brought from their native range to the North America...although, I am not sure they really foresaw what they were doing.

With all of the evidence against bringing species outside of their native range (and away from the predators that keep them in check), I get very mad at people who continue to refuse to learn from those mistkakes.

[dapjwy]

By the way, great pics Sage.

[jack]

Originally Posted by dapjwy

jack,

I understand how you feel...at the same time I'm trying to think of it this way: I can't blame a spider for eating a butterfly instead of a housefly. What about the bluebirds that feed their young all sorts of insects (some of which we assign a negative/gross factor to as well as those that we think of as pretty).

Of course I realize my reaction to the event is insupportable, but...

Now, on your analogy between the spider and the wren, the spider kills to live and gain nourishment. What the hell is the wren doing it for? I mean - to a chickadee??? He didn't eat those chicks; he killed them and left them there to rot.

[dapjwy]

Originally Posted by jack

Of course I realize my reaction to the event is insupportable, but...

I'm not sure that I'd say it is unsupportable. From an emotional standpoint I agree completely--and we humans are emotional beings. I still feel for you and the chicks parents; I'd have been devastated and angry too.

I also, am trying to avoid attracting the house wrens, because I don't want to witness that myself. I also don't tend to watch all that is reported in the news--I have to be aware of what is going on, but I don't have to be bombarded with all of the suffering (especially when it is not balanced out by the good that is happening).

Originally Posted by jack

Now, on your analogy between the spider and the wren, the spider kills to live and gain nourishment. What the hell is the wren doing it for? I mean - to a chickadee??? He didn't eat those chicks; he killed them and left them there to rot.

Hmm...good point. I guessing that the wren is trying to avoid competition for insects to feed their young...and future competition of their progeny with the progeny of the chickadees.

It still doesn't make me feel any better about the behavior or the bird. I am still not very fond of blue jays since finding out as a kid about their bullying behaviors.

[jack]

Originally Posted by dapjwy

I'm not sure that I'd say it is unsupportable. From an emotional standpoint I agree completely--and we humans are emotional beings. I still feel for you and the chicks parents; I'd have been devastated and angry too.

I also, am trying to avoid attracting the house wrens, because I don't want to witness that myself. I also don't tend to watch all that is reported in the news--I have to be aware of what is going on, but I don't have to be bombarded with all of the suffering (especially when it is not balanced out by the good that is happening).

Hmm...good point. I guessing that the wren is trying to avoid competition for insects to feed their young...and future competition of their progeny with the progeny of the chickadees.

It still doesn't make me feel any better about the behavior or the bird. I am still not very fond of blue jays since finding out as a kid about their bullying behaviors.

Funny, I was just out in the yard yanking down nesting boxes that had been up for years, thinking how childish my reaction was. I was reacting like a kid who couldn't get his way. Lichen covered, the boxes showed their age but were still very functional. Can you believe that a pair of house wrens were building a nest in a new box and arrogantly sat by screaming at me as I was taking one of the boxes down (the bolts had rusted).

There is now only one box left in the yard (a new chickadee one that I purchased on Amazon this past winter). I'll take that down as soon as the wren chicks fledge and then call it quits for a season on bird houses.

BTW, I avoid the local violent news whenever possible too. We live in a violent world, though. The closer one looks at the natural world, the more one sees what a bloodbath it is, from the arthropods on up. Even the plants wreak havoc on one another!!

[dapjwy]

Originally Posted by jack

Funny, I was just out in the yard yanking down nesting boxes that had been up for years, thinking how childish my reaction was. I was reacting like a kid who couldn't get his way.

We do want things our way, don't we? I'm not different...I like my own little world. Even my plans for the property are to be as natural as possible, but with *easy access* for me to explore.

Originally Posted by jack

Lichen covered, the boxes showed their age but were still very functional.

Aw. They sound so picturesque.

Originally Posted by jack

Can you believe that a pair of house wrens were building a nest in a new box and arrogantly sat by screaming at me as I was taking one of the boxes down (the bolts had rusted).

Yup. How did that make you feel?

Originally Posted by jack

...I avoid the local violent news whenever possible too. We live in a violent world, though. The closer one looks at the natural world, the more one sees what a bloodbath it is, from the arthropods on up. Even the plants wreak havoc on one another!!

I'm getting depressed.

[CitraBenzoet]

wow thats interesting. This year I have a pair of chickadees nesting in a house that the House Wrens had been using the past few years (the house wrens moved into a diff house other side of the garden). I havent noticed them really interacting with eachother but itll be something to look into and keep an eye out for.