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Old 03-18-2010, 10:16 AM   #41
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Not to stray off topic, but the typical car puts out almost twenty pounds of carbon dioxide per gallon of gas burned. Also nitrogen oxides, water, hydrocarbons, and carbon monoxide, any of which would kill sparrows and people, in enough quantity.
I wouldn't mess with car exhaust either, too much trouble and potential problems.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:10 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by fishlkmich View Post
If I didn't offer milo and millet I would miss having all of the juncos, many native sparrows and others that eat these seeds, but won't have anything to do with sunflower or safflower seed.
Since I started the thread everyone should know what side I am on but I wanted to debunk this part of this post - I only feed black oil sunflower and nyjer and this winter I had plenty of juncos and native sparrows.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:07 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by fishlkmich View Post
I missed this earlier. This is another great option for the squeamish, but automobile exhaust is carbon monoxide, not dioxide. The problems with using car exhaust are endless. It's hard to do. It may generate hot gas . . .

Carbon dioxide is available in the form of dry ice. When placed in open atmosphere it dissipates CO2 (it is CO2 in its solid form). If someone has issues with dispatching S&S, but is willing to trap them, get a cooler that your trap will fit in. You can find dry ice locally. Try wholesale food vendors, ice cream wholesalers and similar places. In the south, I have seen it in grocery stores. Just place the trap in a cooler, add a chunk of dry ice and close the lid. This is considered a humane practice by Michigan law.
I wouldn't attempt car exhuast and carbon monoxide... I had read on sialis.org that CO2 could be used. I'd have to check back on which canister was recommended and another option that was not to be used. I don't think I've heard of the dry ice method...thanks for another possible option.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:38 PM   #44
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What about sodium pentobarbital? The other methods seem like they would cause suffering, even if for a short time. Here's the litmus test for me: I wouldn't use them on an animal I loved.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:24 PM   #45
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Sodium pentobarbital is controlled by the Federal Controlled Substances Act.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:02 PM   #46
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Sodium pentobarbital is controlled by the Federal Controlled Substances Act.
Well, actually, that's reassuring.

But if you knew a vet who would... although I don't think my pets' vet would. hmmm.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:42 AM   #47
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Swamp Thing,

I stand corrected. There goes another suicide method. Apparently, the other noxious fumes produced by the emissions from a car engine make it practically impossible to stay around long enough for the CO2 to displace enough oxygen to kill you now. I imagine that this is a better reason not to use car emissions to dispatch house sparrows with. Catalytic converters have done a good job of converting the CO produced by the burning of fossil fuel to CO2. About 80% of the CO produced in an internal combustion car engine is now converted to CO2 by the catalytic converter.

Automobile emissions were used extensively to put down cats and dogs in animal shelters. That practice has been outlawed in every state that Iím aware of. Perhaps the catalytic converter was behind this change. CO2 chambers are still an accepted method of ďhumanelyĒ dispatching house sparrows and dry ice is the easiest way to do it, unless you have a compressed gas supplier handy.

TimSaupe,

I have had bald eagles, great blue herons, wood ducks and vultures in my yard. I donít supply road kill or fish. My point was that you would attract more birds and a wider variety of birds by offering a variety of foods. If I supplied road kill on a regular basis I would have more vultures in my yard. If I didnít feed birds at all I would still have some visitors. I saw orioles in my yard before I began feeding them grape jelly. Now I see orioles on a regular basis and much closer than before I started a program to feed them, specifically. The same goes for hummingbirds. You would have more juncos and native sparrows if you offered a seed that they prefer over sunflower. Since I donít have a house sparrow problem, I can offer a wider variety of seed. I also prefer to offer seed that house sparrows like because I want them to come to my feeders. If there are house sparrows in the area, I want to remove them.

Calliandra,

When I shoot a house sparrow, it dies quicker and with less trauma than being trapped and given a lethal injection. To me, they are more like a mouse in my kitchen than my pet. If we treated all life equally, man would no longer exist. You kill bacteria with each hand washing. That doesnít bother you, but you are literally taking thousands of lives. Where do you draw the line? Donít swat a mosquito? Ants in the house - lots of them - let them be, or kill them?

Iíll say it again. If you donít mind S&S, enjoy them. Feed them. I only ask that people do not allow them to breed on their property. If people would do this one thing I would not have to kill as many as I do.

We did not set out to drive the passenger pigeon to extinction. It happened because we killed enough of them to drive the species to the ďtipping pointĒ. There were not enough left to reproduce in numbers high enough to continue the life of the species. We could do the same, intentionally, with S&S. Instead, we feed them and give them places to nest, at the expense of our native birds.

At least, for the time being, sound science and reason is on my side. Every state in the nation allows for the unlimited taking of S&S, 365 days a year. Every university ornithology lab and every birding organization agrees with me. I have come under attack for promoting the protection of our native birds for years and years. I donít ask people to harm anything. I promote it, but I donít ask it from anyone. The simple fact that I legally protect our native birds and do so openly makes me a target. It gets old, but I donít care. There will always be PETA followers, even though PETA kills 98% of the animals that it takes in and has no shelter, whatsoever. It is an ultimate irony, but watch the actors and actresses line up behind the killing machine to promote their ďcauseĒ. Most folks live life with blinders on. They will tell you that they wonít kill anything on their way through the McDonaldís drive thru.

Kill a house sparrow and save a bluebird.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:14 PM   #48
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Thank you for sharing your passion with me fishlkmich.
I also thank you for sharing your vision.
I also thank you for doing all that one man can do protecting our native cavity nesters.

Earlier this morning I read of action taken by Murray State University to drive off starlings. They have evidently chosen not to humanely destroy them. It is most likely their decision anticipated bad publicity that would have occurred had the chosen to humanely destroy the starlings. This is a shame. Tens of thousands of European starlings once roosting at the campus will be dispersed to the local countryside.
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:11 PM   #49
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I found what you read about Murray State University, The Murray State News - Starling population not so darling to Facilities ManagementFirst and foremost, our priority is the safety, health and well-being of our students, staff, faculty and visitors,” Harper said." You're right... they didn't humanely destroy them.... they "expelled" thousands causing damage instead of killing them and now they're going to be everybody else in the surrounding area's problem. So much for any concern over the safety, health, and well being of residents of the community. Sort of blows my mind that a university could be so concerned over public opinion that they didn't feel they could do the right thing. Pretty wild.... glad I don't live near Murray State.... the feces from that many starlings is a major league problem and the University knew it and the public health hazards of these birds were even discussed in the article.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:07 AM   #50
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I wonder just how much they spend to "move" undesirable, disease carrying, odor causing, metal corroding, building destroying birds from a campus. This is where the fear of PETA sets in. The school would be made a target for animal rights groups if they legally killed one of the thousands of starlings. In our politically correct world we cannot do what is right because a few extreme groups can make enough trouble that we fear to do what is right. This was an opportunity that was abused. 98% of those starlings could have been discretely trapped and euthanized. Instead, the community and any native birds displaced by these birds suffer. It's like leaving your garbage on your neighbor's doorstep. The community should retaliate with a class action lawsuit against the school for exposing them to the hazards that the school created.

My purple martin colony and bluebird trail is on public school property. The science teachers will not allow the children to participate in what I do because I kill house sparrows. If what I do to preserve a little acre of this world for native birds ever made the press the school system would probably shut down the sanctuary. Kids are not learning how to preserve nature because it isn't politically correct. After this generation is gone, I imagine that most of our native cavity nesting birds will be, too.
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