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Old 06-13-2009, 03:10 PM   #11
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There was an announcement in the paper here that there would be an auction of a truckload of mustangs. When we went to the auction we found the hourses underfed with many injuries. In fact one man bought a group of them and then shot them because our vet saw no way to get them back into healthy condition.

I am in favor of adoption, but there needs to be a more humane adoption program. Afterall the horses didn't do this - we did it. I am certainly in favor of preserving habitats but beyond a certain point WE humans are a component in that habitat - I mean the ranchers in Nevada who don't want the mustangs on their land.

Most people do know that the mustangs are wild horses from stock originally brought to the west from Europe - not animals that somehow survived zillions of years of evolution in the new world.

This is one problem that needs a better solution.
There must be a better way. There were many kids who wanted to adopt one of those mustangs. And shooting them against their expectations of a healthy wild horse to train is just unconscienable.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:30 PM   #12
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I disagree. Most people believe horses are native. I agree there should have been a better adoption process in place. Horses pulled from the range in a condition a veterinarian stated could not be returned to health should have been humanely destroyed BEFORE they were transported. They should have never been left on the range and they should have never been made available for adoption. That's the equivalent of passing a problem onto someone else to do the dirty deed of humanely destroying them. I am in favor of adoption providing there is some sort of a vet check before animals are transported and providing potential adopters are pre-screened on the other end. An adoption form needs to be filled out, a release to contact a potential adopter's family vet needs to be signed to enable volunteers to verify appropriate care to existing animals is provided, a site check of where the animal will be kept needs to be conducted, references need to be checked, and there needs to be a question and answer session between someone in charge of this operation and potential adopters... otherwise even healthy horses can end up in the condition described by you. An underfed horse can be dealt with providing the adopter has the funds and the where withal to follow through. Costs of dental and routine hoof care for healthy and well maintained animals have gone through the ceiling and families that were once in a position to afford these services may no longer be able to absorb them plus the additional veterinarian costs of getting a feral horse back on the right track while trying to cover their own rising medical costs. We all see photos of wild mustangs running free looking like the epitome of health... but that isn't always the truth. Those feral horses may enjoy the highest level of genetic health but... as you've learned first hand their physical condition upon arrival may leave some potential adopters backing off if they weren't prepared or if the animal was too far gone. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I suspect the expectations of many may have been dashed when they got a look see at underfed animals with injuries beyond that which a veterinarian could provide care. It's unfortunate kids were disappointed. Sounds to me like this was a raw deal all the way around. Surely there were enough horses that could have been rounded up to send animals that might have had a chance surviving and thriving in a loving environment as opposed to transporting what you described.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:13 PM   #13
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Mustang (Equus caballus)

This piece seems to be essentially correct. Im not sure that its true that there were indigenous horses here 10,000 years ago. Horses yes, but that date seems too recent.

There were native American dogs co-existing with human populations - not horses until they were brought here by the Spanish.

I think that its interesting that the Mongolian indigenous horse became extinct on the Mongolian steppes for almost the same reasons we see now as pressures on the Mustang populations.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:52 PM   #14
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Although evidence for horses indigenous to Alaska have been recovered in permafrost they date between 12,000 to 28,000 years ago. Human remains in the new world at the oldest date to about 11,500 (radiocarbon - Clovis occupation).

This genetic study also found that comparisons between American mustangs and other dna clusters show that the mustangs are most like the Iberian and N. African horses - supporting the idea that mustangs got where they are because they accompanied early Spanish explorers. They are not somehow related to indigenous American horses.

Mitochondrial DNA and the origins of the domestic horse
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:30 AM   #15
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Equil,

In order to adopt a mustang, one must fill out extensive paperwork and guarantee that the horse will not be shipped to slaughter, among other things.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:46 AM   #16
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Hazelnut, you are having the same issues with the domesticated horse that you had with the domesticated dog-
http://www.wildlifegardeners.org/forum/invasive-fauna/321-not-invasive-fauna-canis-familiaris.html

Modern day horse was domesticated about 3,000 years ago.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/horses/horse_evol.html

Try to think of a domesticated animal as you would a cultivar that is of garden origin.

cultivar: Definition from Answers.com
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A race or variety of a plant that has been created or selected intentionally and maintained through cultivation.
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Any variety of a plant, originating through cloning or hybridization (see clone, hybrid), known only in cultivation. In asexually propagated plants, a cultivar is a clone considered valuable enough to have its own name; in sexually propagated plants, a cultivar is a pure line (for self-pollinated plants) or, for cross-pollinated plants, a population that is genetically distinguishable.
Modern Horse
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As with all domesticated animals man has bred the horse to suit his requirements and even personal preferences so that the modern horse now ranges in size from tiny doglike minis right through to massive heavy horses. This page looks at how the modern horse is described and the many types of horse that exist.
Horses are described in numerous ways; breeds, types, 'bloods' and purposes.
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Old 06-15-2009, 01:49 PM   #17
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Lorax: Domesticated dogs have been recovered from early man archeological sites in the U.S. dating to 17,000 B.C. Those are native American dogs.

The Mustangs were brought by the Spanish and the dna article I referenced supports that modern mustangs are genetically related to North African varieties of horses.

There were pre-Pliestocene horses in the new world, but they were extinct by the time human populations arrived here.

I don't see any "issues" here.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:30 AM   #18
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I found an interesting perspective on the Mute Swan, About Swans
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:02 PM   #19
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The process to adopt horses is horribly difficult, or at least it was a few years ago. A neighbor researched it and ended up adopting a donkey through the program. The long list of requirements doesn't stop with you not being allowed to sell it, you're even required to show up with a horse trailer with a door that opens a certain way, and all sorts of other requirements that don't enourage everyone willing to give a horse a home to apply.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
I found an interesting perspective on the Mute Swan, About Swans
What a l-o-o-o-ng opinion! He makes sense, though, arguing that we don't have satisfactory justification for eliminating certain exotics.
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