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Old 12-12-2009, 11:33 PM   #11
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No offense, but I don't beleive anything the WI DNR says. There are areas in the northwoods that have deer populations below 5/sq mi. Independant research has shown there are locations where the population at this time is not genetically viable. Keep beleiving the DNRs propaganda if you wish. As far as those predators taking livestock? Two years ago several wolves were removed about 30 miles from my home for killing cattle. I do not live "up north" either. Go ahead, keep beleiving what comes out of Madison. I'll beleive in what I see with my own eyes tyvm.
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Old 12-12-2009, 11:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
The DNR in wisconson site says the state of Wisconsin is still well over the number of deer that will sustain hunter,bear, wolf, bobcat and car collision kills.

Check it out.

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/wolf/pdfs/wolvesdeer2009.pdf
As far as this document, I'm not really sure how the DNR came up with this one, but there have been a far cry from 122k deer killed by hunters in the northern and central forests this year. The entire state has only harvested about 230k this entire year so far. The harvest numbers are available on the DNRs website if you do not beleive me.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:01 AM   #13
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I keep begging people to come down and hunt by me but nobody takes me up on my offer... I think I'll smell my pits to make sure I wore deodorant this morning. I'm loaded with bambis. Somebody take me up on hunting my bambis. You can hunt through the kitchen window if you want and the frig with snacks in it is only an arms length away.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:05 AM   #14
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That pdf is dated Oct of 2009, so that number probably came from the 2008 harvest (451,835 total for the state).
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/...eer/hist08.pdf
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:43 PM   #15
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Trillium, I have family living in several areas of Wisconsin. My husband is from there and his brother still lives there. Madison is cool, but it is not the only area I visit on a regular basis.
I would like to understand why you think deer populations are so low as to be unrecoverable.
And if you don't mind why you think the wolves will become a problem that is unmanagable.
From what I can see deer meta populations (the over all numbers from surrounding areas even other states) are high enough to move into any area that has a temporary low count what ever the reason.
Deer hunting is low this season partly because people are afraid of the Chronic Wasting Disease and partly because of culling in areas where the disease has been found spreading.
The following map is from DNR but it shows Wisconsin areas that have low numbers of deer in blue and green with the areas in yellow and red still above goal.

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/hunt/deer/post_hunt_pop.pdf
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:40 PM   #16
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"Deer hunting is low this season partly because people are afraid of the Chronic Wasting Disease and partly because of culling in areas where the disease has been found spreading."

CWD was found in 2002. It caused a decline in license sales that year, but sales have regained strongly. There is no government program of culling going on in this state at this time.

I'm really not looking to argue. I understand my opinion ( like many of my other opinions) are not popular here. I should have just stayed shut up.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:03 PM   #17
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Well, one man's unrecoverable is another man's how it should be.

Should one be able to sit in their backyard and shoot deer from their lawnchair? Deer that they've been feeding all year? Nope. Sorry, that isn't sport. It's shooting fish in a barrel, and not sporting. Remember...they're supposed to have a chance to get away.

If collecting a deer actually requires some physical effort, and some time spent running around outdoors, and some knowledge of their habits and food preferences and habitat and their predators(who are your competition), that is sport.

If ecosystems were left as they were...there would be no more deer than the land could support. There would be no more predators than the land could support.

Limiting factors. You don't have the browse, you don't have the deer, you don't have the deer, you don't have the predators.
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Old 12-14-2009, 11:25 AM   #18
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trillium, I'm sorry if I have offended you. We actually agree about some things and I have no solutions to offer, just thought you might be able to help me understand your point of view.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:50 PM   #19
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Default Mesopredator release and avifaunal extinctions in a fragmented system

Mesopredator release and avifaunal extinctions in a fragmented system
Kevin R. Crooks & Michael E. Soulé

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v400/n6744/abs/400563a0.html
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Abstract

Mammalian carnivores are particularly vulnerable to extinction in fragmented landscapes1, and their disappearance may lead to increased numbers of smaller carnivores that are principle predators of birds and other small vertebrates. Such 'mesopredator release'2 has been implicated in the decline and extinction of prey species2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Because experimental manipulation of carnivores is logistically, financially and ethically problematic6,7, however, few studies have evaluated how trophic cascades generated by the decline of dominant predators combine with other fragmentation effects to influence species diversity in terrestrial systems. Although the mesopredator release hypothesis has received only limited critical evaluation8 and remains controversial9, it has become the basis for conservation programmes justifying the protection of carnivores6. Here we describe a study that exploits spatial and temporal variation in the distribution and abundance of an apex predator, the coyote, in a landscape fragmented by development. It appears that the decline and disappearance of the coyote, in conjunction with the effects of habitat fragmentation, affect the distribution and abundance of smaller carnivores and the persistence of their avian prey.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:51 PM   #20
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Access : Mesopredator release and avifaunal extinctions in a fragmented system : Nature
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