![]() |
![]() |
#41 |
Official Plant Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
|
![]()
Ha ha ha.... speaking of the devil.... here I am!!!
![]() -- "Would it be safe to assume that if the pond in which they lay is sealed under ice they must absorb oxygen from the water verses coming up for a gulp of air" Yes... that's why it's really important in small bodies of water... like the vast majority of man-made ponds.... to either drain them and relocate any frogs that were attracted to the artificial environment to a larger natural pond or at the very least.... keep a hole open in the ice throughout ALL of winter that allows for air exchange while providing appropriate substrate so they won't float up and become 1 with any ice. And.... don't forget to "muck" out the bottoms at the end of the gardening season otherwise the decomposition process will basically suck all the oxygen out of the water that a brumating frog has to have to survive. -- "Rivers and ponds in the wild freeze over solid....The frogs MUST be going up to gulp trapped air under those every now and then don't they?" No. They'll survive off the oxygen in the water. If you're talking a small natural pond that freezes over solid like the depression left in the ground from the root ball of a toppled tree.... odds are any frog brumating in it would suffer the same fate it would in an artificial pond.... it'd die.... not enough oxygen.... not enough depth.... not enough water volume.... not enough of the right material at the bottom for them to "wedge" themselves into. Frogs that brumate go into a state of suspended animation for lack of a better term.... their metabolisms slow down to the extent that if you pulled 1 out of the water....you'd be convinced it was dead. While they're in that "dead to the world" state.... they need to stay at the bottom where the water never drops below 32°. Instinct "tells" them to "sandwich" themselves between "loose" material that will keep them from floating up to the surface while they're in their deep sleep. If they become dislodged.... they float up and end up dead frogcickles. This is why I sunk weighted drift wood into the bottom of my pond and added quilt batting and leaves and pieces of pvc and broken terra cota (sp?).... I was providing any frog with a means by which to brumate safely by staying "put" at the bottom. Remember.... frogs don't brumate in mud or muck.... if they did... they'd be cut off from the oxygen in the water they need to make it to spring. Again... when it comes to an artificial environment.... whether they live or die depends on so many variables it's just better off draining a pond and relocating anything in it before winter sets in. Unfortunately.... all too many man-made ponds become death traps because most ponders don't understand the needs of a brumating frog and then there are those who don't want to understand. Adding something.... weather's gonna be a wild card this year. Just consider the weather the midwest has had lately.... -7° and -5° and next week we're gonna plunge again and it's only December. Southern states that don't normally get hit are dealing with this "cold snap" too..... water that doesn't normally freeze over is freezing over. Ponders are getting caught with their pants down.... nobody expected this kind of whacky weather and we're gonna lose aquatic frogs because of it. That old saying "if we build it they will come" holds true and there's a lot of ponds out there that weren't drained that shoulda been drained to encourage frogs to choose more appropriate "digs". As far as the rivers go.... there's moving water under the ice. Moving water is well oxygenated.
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss Last edited by Equilibrium; 12-15-2013 at 01:18 AM. Reason: adding something |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#42 |
Alternate POM Judge
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
|
![]()
Yeah there's equil! I thought that was the case. There is more oxygen in the larger bodies of water. I have never found any dead frogs. To make sure I never do I am melting a hole in the ice when they freeze over. Thank you for the info equil. Hope your husband is ok.
__________________
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous. Aristotle |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#43 |
WG Hospitality & UAOKA recipient
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
![]()
How do they get the oxygen into their lungs?
...Oh, and welcome back. I hope all is with you and your hubby (and everyone else).
__________________
"If suburbia were landscaped with meadows, prairies, thickets or forests, or combinations of these, then the water would sparkle, fish would be good to eat again, birds would sing and human spirits would soar." ~ Lorrie Otto ~ A Native Backyard Blog ~ Last edited by dapjwy; 12-15-2013 at 10:44 AM. Reason: add comment |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#44 |
Unicellular Fungi
Join Date: Feb 2013
|
![]()
While hibernating submerged - - all of the frog's respiration takes place through the skin.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#45 |
WG Hospitality & UAOKA recipient
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
![]()
Thanks, Wildlife_Biologist. That is what it sounded like with all of the talk of oxygen in the water.
__________________
"If suburbia were landscaped with meadows, prairies, thickets or forests, or combinations of these, then the water would sparkle, fish would be good to eat again, birds would sing and human spirits would soar." ~ Lorrie Otto ~ A Native Backyard Blog ~ |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#46 |
Alternate POM Judge
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
|
![]()
It is so amazing how the frogs overwinter.
__________________
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous. Aristotle |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#47 |
Official Plant Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
|
![]()
Egads.... sorry.... I totally missed adding the obvious... thanks W_B. Here's the deal Dappy.... frog lungs aren't all that well developed.... they can't get enough oxygen into their bloodstream based on "lung power" alone so.... on land they breathe through their lungs AND their skin. When under water AFTER their metabolism has been slowed down dramatically in preparation for hibernating over winter when there would be no food available and no way for them to keep their body temps above freezing.... they're well capable of breathing exclusivley through their skin as long as there's ample oxygen in the water. This is why ponders in the northern reaches have to provide a sufficient volume of water in their ponds, air exchange at the surface, and an appropriate substrate for them to brumate in that will keep them down at the bottom for the duration.
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#48 |
WG Prize & Gift Coordinator
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Michigan
|
![]()
Now I understand why and how a small pond verses a large pond or a moving stream in the wild affects things.
It's the lack of oxygen AND-OR the lack of bottom material (NOT mud) that ends up either suffocating or allowing dislodging, raising and freezing them to death. Thank you!
__________________
The successful woman is the woman that had the chance and took it! A walk among the elusive Whitetail Deer |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#49 | |
WG Hospitality & UAOKA recipient
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
"If suburbia were landscaped with meadows, prairies, thickets or forests, or combinations of these, then the water would sparkle, fish would be good to eat again, birds would sing and human spirits would soar." ~ Lorrie Otto ~ A Native Backyard Blog ~ |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#50 |
Alternate POM Judge
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maryland
|
![]()
__________________
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous. Aristotle |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Tags |
habitat, winterizing |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|